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09-16-2003, 02:24 PM
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#1
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'09 Third Place PSOA Ohio Chapter Competition
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,483
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Flatter the Subject?
I am currently working on a portrait of Congressman Dennis Kucinich, who is a friend of a friend. I received permission from the photojournalist to use his photo as my reference. I've attached that photo and a quick sketch (about 2 hrs) I completed to "learn" his features. At least I hope they are attached!!
My question is, how should I handle his neck. I do not want to make him look younger, but I would like to minimize the appearance of the wrinkles. Obviously in this sketch I did not even address the neck, but now I am faced with the problem and I do not know how to even approach it.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Also, what size would you suggest this be done in? I am working in graphite HB, 2B, 4B, and 8B.
Thank you,
Pat
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09-16-2003, 02:50 PM
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#2
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'09 Third Place PSOA Ohio Chapter Competition
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,483
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Kucinich reference photo
Trying to attach the photo reference
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09-16-2003, 03:34 PM
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#3
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'09 Third Place PSOA Ohio Chapter Competition
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,483
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The sketch
I want to apologize to taking up anyone's precious time, trying to figure out how to attach this sketch. I am so embarrassed.
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09-16-2003, 03:41 PM
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#4
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'09 Third Place PSOA Ohio Chapter Competition
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,483
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Finally!
Now that I have both scans in the same place, let me please restate my questions. I do not know how I should address his jawline and neck. As you can see I did not even address it in this quick sketch I did, but I have been trying different approaches and my inexperience is really impeding my ability to render a wrinkle/droopy-free neck! I have no experience with studying anatomy. Anyone have any pointers you can give me?
Also, would it be a stronger portrait if I rendered it in charcoal pencil instead of graphite? I am not as adept in charcoal, so would like to use graphite. Currently using HB, 2B, 4B, and 8B.
Thank you, all who have worked your way through my labyrinth of unsuccessful posts (geesh, Cynthia, please don't "dismember" me!)
Sincerely,
Pat Joyce
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09-17-2003, 04:01 AM
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#5
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SOG & FORUM OWNER
Joined: Jun 2001
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 2,129
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No dismemberment! To keep your posts in the same thread, just use "post reply" instead of "new topic."
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09-17-2003, 08:18 AM
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#6
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PHOTOGRAPHY MODERATOR SOG Member '03 Finalist Taos SOPA '03 HonMen SoCal ASOPA '03 Finalist SoCal ASOPA '04 Finalist Taos SOPA
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,674
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Pat,
Drawing critique is not my forte but I have a couple of impressions.
About your flattering question, I would not attempt to alter much of what you see before you. In your sketch you have rendered the eyes of a mature man, then you began to eliminate some of the character of the wrinkles which match up with the eyes. I think you are creating an incongruity with this approach. I would draw what you see.
Secondly, the photograph has given you a lot of good things. First it has given you a wonderful dynamic composition which I would use. Look at all the nice lost and found edges. Maybe those darks would be tough with your pencil, I would explore a different medium, maybe charcoal would be better. Personally I like soft black pastel.
These are the musings of a single pilgrim.
__________________
Mike McCarty
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09-17-2003, 09:24 AM
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#7
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Juried Member PT 5+ years
Joined: Nov 2001
Location: Stillwater, MN
Posts: 1,801
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We
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09-17-2003, 09:37 AM
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#8
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Juried Member FT Professional 10 yrs '05 Artists Mag
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 178
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Dear Pat:
Actually the photo you posted is not a bad one to work from and does not present the Congressman in an unflattering light. It's clear he's not 35, so why draw him as such. Instead I would work on getting down the structure of his head. I realize your posted sketch was done quickly, yet even then it's important to indicate some of the darker values, like the area around and in the nostrils which make such a nice shape, the arches of his brow, the left side of his upper lip, the core shadow around his chin, the dark backward "S" shape in his ear, etc. You can see these shadows better if you squint at the photo, or even turn it upside down, and work from it that way.
The area of your concern, the neck and under chin, are also important areas to address. The light that falls like a spotlight across his face, creates a triangle on the neck area extending into the collar of his shirt. You could underplay or lose one of those folds by the collar but you have to show the value change from neck to under chin. Otherwise with no clear indication where his neck begins, he ends up looking rather turtle-like, not very appealing for ones political image in this fast-paced society.
I hope this has been some help.
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09-17-2003, 09:44 AM
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#9
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CAFE & BUSINESS MODERATOR SOG Member FT Professional
Joined: Jul 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,460
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To answer your three questions:
I would draw his neck exactly as shown in the photo, as others have recommended
I would draw it life size. For me, that has the most power.
I would stay with pencil since that's what you are most comfortable with, and this is an important drawing.
Hope that helps. Keep us informed as to your progress and good luck!
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09-17-2003, 11:08 AM
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#10
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'09 Third Place PSOA Ohio Chapter Competition
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,483
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Thank you Cynthia, Mike, Steven, Scott and Michele,
I am very appreciative of your responses and glad I was able to turn to this Forum for advice. The "secular" (as in non-artist) consensus has been that I eliminate the "unflattering" wrinkles in his neck. I know many people who know Congressman Kucinich personally and who are working on his campaign. They will not see the portrait until it is complete. But their well-intended remarks were causing conflict with the approach I wanted to take. Each of you has confirmed what my instincts have been telling me and what my sketches have also revealed thus far. Anything short of accurately portraying the subject will fall short of having the impact I hope to impart on the viewer. I originally chose this photo because of the strong composition, the unique viewpoint and the strong spotlighting. (I know the posted study is "weak" as I had not worked up the tonal range, but I wanted post a quick study in order to reference the subject "without his true neck"!)
I do believe Dennis' lines and wrinkles give him a more mature appearance, which is refreshing to see, I think, because, as you state, Steven, he has always been "targeted as looking child-like or gnomish". I'm a lifelong resident of Cleveland and remember when he was a 19-yr-old councilman and mayor (unfortunately brief and tragic!) at the ripe old age of twenty-something!
I was drawn to the photo because I believe it does give him stature which he needs! I will take your advice Michele and draw him life size at least through the shoulders, and stay with the pencil using a full range (HB, 2B 4B, 8B). I will take your advice Steven and "keep the point sharpened and work slowly and deliberately" (my new mantra?!).
I have worked out his nose in some sketches, which I found very hard to render with the deep shadow formed under the distinct shape of the bulb of his nose. But nothing has worked when I try to "put in" a neck and jaw without structure of folds and lines. I just laughed out loud, Scott, to read your remark about his looking "rather turtle-like"! THAT is what was bothering me! Now, all I see is a turtle in all my studies of him!
I will definitely keep you posted on my progress. It's back to the drawing board but with more conviction to maintain the integrity of the subject's true features. Undoubtedly, I will be posting again before completion, for further critiques.
Thanks for the vote of confidences and for giving me some direction which sits right with me.
Later -
Pat
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