Advertising in a magazine

Annette Ellingwood · 08-31-2002, 07:05 PM

I am considering taking out a magazine ad. It is quite a chunk of money, so before I do this, can anyone share their experience with placing an ad in Veranda or any other magazine?

Leslie Ficcaglia · 08-31-2002, 07:42 PM

I have never done so, but I recall reading in another forum or somewhere similar that often this kind of advertising doesn't pay off until your ad has appeared in several issues, and that sometimes it doesn't pay off at all. I believe the writer was specifically talking about Veranda. I'll be interested in seeing what the experience has been of others who have actually tried this.

Mari DeRuntz · 08-31-2002, 08:17 PM

Here's a link to the article I think you're referring to ("Points to Ponder in Portrait Promotion: Magazine Advertising" by Peggy Baumgaertner)

http://www.asopa.com/publications/in...dvertising.htm

Sandy Barnes · 09-01-2002, 05:06 AM

Annette, I have done print advertising for my business several times. One vein has been consistent in the sales pitch: A consumer will see a print ad approx. 5 times before acting on it.

I have come to realize that it takes at least 6 months of advertising (in one publication) to make it pay off. If you can't make that big a committment, maybe it is best to try something else.

BTW, Veranda is a beautiful magazine. If you can make the committment I think it is a wonderful choice. I have seen it several times and have seen only one other portrait artist in it. (This was in the body of the magazine, not the back pages.)

Cynthia Daniel · 09-01-2002, 08:31 AM

As former manager for Robert Schoeller, I have experience in advertising in Veranda and other magazines and will relay our experience.

Years ago when we started advertising, costs were much more reasonable and Veranda and Southern Accents were loaded with portrait artists. Now there are very few due to the exorbitant costs, not due to lack of results (depending on the artist, of course). Each of these magazines primarily target the Southern market where the tradition of portraiture is rich, alive and well.

On the subject of results, obviously the results will vary for each artist and for each portrait ad for a particular artist.

We first advertised in Southern Accents and got good results over all the years we did so. We also got clients from the very first ad, but I would say this is not typical. We used a portrait for that first ad that was a total winner in terms of the Southern market. I wish I had an image of it for you to see.

I'll describe it as best I can. It was a boy and girl, standing, full-figure, outdoors. The boy was about 12 and the girl around 5-6. She was dressed in a white organdy dress with a white organdy pinafore, lace-edging, with one shoulder of the pinafore falling off her shoulder (cute things that appeal to moms and it showed the slight tomboy in the girl despite her dress). The boy was dressed in a white suit, pink shirt and a bow tie. The greenery was lush and rich and rather enfolded them rather than being in the distance. (Over the years, I noticed that readers seem to respond more to this "enfolding" background more than backgrounds that were less so. Perhaps it appealed to the nurturing in mothers, who seemed to be the primary readers). It was somewhat shaded, but with dappled sunlight. Between the boy and girl was a slim, unobstrusive stone structure, between 3-4 feet high. As best I can remember, the boy had his elbow resting on the top of it and the girl was very close to it, maybe leaning a bit towards it. Compositionally, there was a good relationship between the boy, girl and the stone structure. Overall, the look was very romantic and our phone was ringing the very first day.

I've talked with other artists who tried advertising and got no results. But, when I looked at their work, there was nothing about it that was distinctly appealing to the Southern market. At that time, since there were quite a few artists advertising, having this appeal was certainly essential for success.

After a period of time being successful with Southern Accents we tried Veranda. Veranda was successful enough to continue, but our close-ratio was never as high as Southern Accents. And, even a couple of years ago when I spoke with Robert's current manager, she reported that the close-ratio for Southern Accents still continued to be higher. My experience was during the period 1987-1993.

Southern Accents always had higher circulation than Veranda (and ads were accordingly priced higher) so, it made sense we would always get greater numbers of clients. But, the close-ratio for SA was better irregardless of actual numbers of clients obtained. In other words, I calculated what the percentage of closes were in relation to number of calls. But, we still considered Veranda to be worthwhile and continued regularly advertising there.

Southern Accents has a regional edition, which means your ad would only appear in certain parts of the country. This is much less expensive and since most of out clients came from the Southeast, we seldom chose to go in the national edition. The last time I checked, Veranda still did not have a regional edition.

We tried a few other magazines: Architectural Digest and Robb Report. We never got a lot from either of those. Though we did get one commission from the Robb Report that was of a very famous family. But, in the end, the cost-income analysis did not justify continuing. With AD, we may not have gotten even one close. My memory is growing dim on that, but I know we didn't consider it successful, much to my surprise.

You're right that advertising is a huge cost. My recommendation would be to ask the Veranda ad rep to send you back issues for as many years as you can get out of them. Then, spend time pouring through and see what portrait artists have lasted through the years. Those that disappeared after 1-3 ads were most likely not successful. Then study the look of those that covered a period of years and ask yourself if you have something to advertise that has at least the quality and something of the feeling of the least successful, successful advertiser. Does that make sense? In other words, don't try to use Schoeller as an example because his level of success is more rare, but choose someone who was perhaps not as successful as him, but was still successful to a lesser degree. And, to make your research a little easier, you might ask Veranda who some of their longest portrait advertisers are (or were).

I will tell you that I don't think RS advertises every issue now. But, that's after many years of ads and is due to success.

During my tenure, outdoor portraits of cute little girls were the most successful. And, if they look like they come from a wealthy family, all the better. Over time, Robert successfully made the transition to also advertising indoor portraits. But, I think part of that was because he'd already been successful with outdoor portraits and he had the readership's attention. Otherwise, I'm not so sure that the dark indoor portraits he sometimes now advertises would have been so successful. But, almost all the indoor portraits have an elegance and at least hint at wealth.

I have some last comments on saving money. If you handle getting your own ad film made, you are essentially acting as your own ad agency and are entitle to the 15% agency discount. Also, sometimes magazines won't tell you they have different price levels for different types of advertisers. If you negotiate, you can sometimes get a better deal.

Leslie Ficcaglia · 09-01-2002, 09:07 AM

Mari, you have an excellent memory! I checked the link you provided and that may well have been the reference I was talking about. Here's another article from the same source that also mentions Veranda and Southern Accents:

http://www.asopa.com/publications/20...fpromoting.htm

None of the methods mentioned in that article has worked for me, though. I have had a great deal of excellent free publicity in the local and regional papers: first because I painted a portrait of a young murder victim, commissioned by United Parcel Service to hang in her school, again when I painted our mayor, again when I help found an arts center (my work was featured prominently in the photos,) and later because I painted the governor and his wife. I was also featured in the magazine of the organization (NJ Conference of Mayors) that commissioned the latter.

The donation of 50% of my price to a private school auction event only resulted in a commission from people who had already expressed an interest and no further commissions have come of that exposure.

My work hangs in some very public places, a local restaurant/inn included, and people often tell me that they've seen my paintings and how lovely they are so I know they are noticed. But most of my commissions still come from my keeping a mini-portfolio in my purse and bringing it out whenever possible to show my work. I think a lot has to do with your area; we are not southern enough or affluent enough in south Jersey to make portraits a priority. If my prices were on the level of many of you I suspect I would have no commissions at all!

Rochelle Brown · 09-03-2002, 01:46 PM

Cynthia,

If I may ask, how is Robert Schoeller doing these days?

Cynthia Daniel · 09-03-2002, 02:04 PM

Rochelle,

I assume you mean how is his business doing. Sorry, we don't keep in touch, so I don't know much. As far as the most recent info I have, it's doing fine. I know that he is always wanting to get into his "other paintings" instead of just doing portraiture.

Annette Ellingwood · 09-03-2002, 05:21 PM

Thanks for all the great info. You have all been MOST HELPFUL!

Based on all the information, I have decided to focus my advertising to a publication that circulates in one metropolitan area. I am 3 or 4 hours drive from Chicago, Indianapolis and St. Louis, so I will choose one and do a campaign of ads and see what happens. Business for me is great locally, and I have a waiting list, but I am trying to expand my client base to a metropolitan area with more potential customers. (My town has a population of 100,000). Thanks again. All of you helped me make a decision on this one!