What do you do with all the photographs

Alicia Kornick · 08-05-2002, 09:13 PM

Just wondering what others artists do with all of the photographs from a photo shoot. On the last two portraits that I did, I've had the client ask me for the photographs because they liked them so much. They actually told me they liked them better than ones they have had done by photographers (much to my surprise). Then to my surprise I discovered that they took them to have copies made and enlargements to send to friends and family.

I charge enough to cover the cost of the film and developing in the cost of the portrait, but I just feel funny about this. On the other hand, what do you do with all of those photos collecting dust. I do keep them all until the painting is finished. Just curious.

Michael Georges · 08-05-2002, 10:19 PM

Since I do almost everything digitally, I burn the customer a CD of the pics and burn another for myself which goes into the file for that customer. I then delete the pics from my hard drive.

The few times I have used my 35mm, I give the customer a set of prints - to me, it's part of the service they are paying for.

Mike McCarty · 08-05-2002, 10:44 PM

The first thing I do after I get my photo's back is throw away about 1/2 of them. I usually do this before I leave the photo store. I then take the rest home and go through them again and throw away more. I might end up with what I consider to be the best 5. This could be 5 out of fifty. I don't want anyone seeing my bad or marginal photo's. I make the really hard judgements before the client ever sees them. From the small bunch that is left I usually make my choice based on my own prejudices and make my pitch with one or two photo's.

I make an 8x10 of the one I paint and then put that photo in a file with other photo's that made paintings. Any other hard copies, usually 4x6, I file with the client paperwork.

I keep the negatives of the good photos in a file. If somebody wants copies I don't mind making some extra copies. I sorta consider it as part of the package.

Leslie Ficcaglia · 08-11-2002, 11:45 PM

I have very mixed feelings about this issue. I've had clients ask me for copies, mentioning as an afterthought that they intended to use one for their Christmas card. This is offensive. I consider all my work to be copyrighted and moreover I am not a photographer, I am a portrait artist; the photographs are incidental to the finished painting. On the other hand, many of the photos I produce, even if they're not going to be used for the portrait itself, really capture some wonderful expressions, and especially if I've developed a relationship with the client it's hard for me not to want to share them with them. However I end up handling it, I always make it clear that I have a policy that nothing can be done with the reference photos for the actual painting; those are off-limits.

Before I began painting portraits I dabbled in portrait photography and my stuff is good. I'm aware of how much professional photographers charge, and don't want to give my work away. Also my fees are low to begin with and I don't care to offer two services for the price of one. So when the client/artist relationship is a formal one, I don't give them the photos. When the client is someone I know, I'm more likely to share them, with the above caveat.

Alicia Kornick · 08-12-2002, 12:06 AM

Leslie,

I just this week had a client ask me if I would photograph her children for a Christmas card. I will be painting a portrait for her as my next job. I don't want to get into the photo business but I know her pretty well. Thing is, she could well afford to hire a professional photographer and I think she may be looking to save some money. I am sure whatever I charge her would be well below a photographer's charge.

Leslie Ficcaglia · 08-12-2002, 12:25 AM

Alicia, that sounds like a pretty slippery slope, to me. I wouldn't do it. I would explain that I am a portrait artist, not a photographer, and that I don't have the time or inclination to add another extraneous activity to my schedule. I would recommend, very sweetly, whatever professional photographers there are in the area. If you start doing straight photograpy you're going to be distracted by more and more requests for this sort of service and I think it will impact on your credibility as a portrait artist.

Thinking over my previous comments, I should probably have said that I don't give away photos, and I don't even make double copies of them, unless the client is a friend. That's a more business-like way of proceeding and it's what I was advised to do on another forum when this topic came up. It's a rule you can always break if the circumstances seem to warrant it, but otherwise I suspect you get a reputation for providing free photos along with the painting. This seems to trivialize the art, to some extent, and anyway that's not what I want to be known for.

And if you keep to that policy and only break it rarely you probably avoid situations like the one you're dealing with now. Photos should be viewed only as painting aids rather than as goods in and of themselves.

Mari DeRuntz · 08-12-2002, 10:04 AM

Alicia, I've seen your photographs and they're stunning.

I'm wondering if it's necessary AT ALL to show the client reference photographs. Why not show them reference drawings/thumbnails if they are going to be part of the decision-making process (regarding pose, color-schemes, etc.)?

Granted, I'm just starting out in this business, but I will say I haven't had to face this issue because the client never sees my reference photos. I don't show up at meetings with a stack of reference photos -- I show up with charcoal gesture drawings, some more tonally developed, and typically a couple of quick oil studies to show color schemes. By this time I've worked through issues with the image, and the client has always gone with my decision. More importantly, they're excited to see how the piece evolves. (Not to say I won't have tough ones coming up.)

If you let them see the photos, you're sort of presenting yourself as a portrait photographer. And the painting better be a replica of the photo that the client has chosen to fall in love with. As painters, we're not attempting a "photocopy" of one medium to the other (pixels to paint), so don't allow your client the opportunity to think that's what you do.

I suspect most of the pros on this site work this way. Anyone?

Mike McCarty · 08-12-2002, 10:37 AM

In this day and age, there seems to be a natural tendency for portrait photography and portrait painting to merge. I deal with this all the time. I have tried to develop myself as a portrait photographer for the reasons that I have stated before. The problem that I encounter is that the general public is not keenly aware of my goals and my purposes. They see, and they interpret for their own agenda. And so situations arise which blur and confound.

What I do is try and keep a keen eye on my purpose. I then make a judgement on whether some activity will ultimately support my purpose.

I doubt that Tom Hanks would say yes to doing a cheesy sitcom these days. But there was a time when it seemed like the right thing to do. The more successful one becomes, the more rules you are able to adhere to. Until then you have to think on your feet.

Leslie Ficcaglia · 08-12-2002, 01:35 PM

Mari, I share the photos with the client because he or she is the only one who knows what aspect of the subject, in terms of expressions and poses, he or she wants to memorialize. Often enough the expression I prefer is not what the client was interested in; to him or her, knowing the subject so much better than I do, the expression I liked meant something different to them: the child being shy with a stranger, the adolescent putting on a harder persona for effect, and so forth.

The client also knows that I don't just "copy" the photos; I make it clear that the actual painting will probably have elements from several reference pictures. The hair is often from one and the hands from another while the pose might be from a third. Once I block the picture in I try to let the client see it so that he or she will know roughly what the finished portrait will look like in terms of composition and subject position. I don't do preliminary sketches because I find that I dislike creating the same image twice, even when the medium is different. But everyone needs to find his own best way of working; that happens to be mine.

Michael Georges · 08-12-2002, 02:57 PM

Quote:

If you let them see the photos, you're sort of presenting yourself as a portrait photographer. And the painting better be a replica of the photo that the client has chosen to fall in love with. As painters, we're not attempting a "photocopy" of one medium to the other (pixels to paint), so don't allow your client the opportunity to think that's what you do.

Mari, I think that has to do more with setting client expecations. I purposefully tell my client that we are creating a painting and not just a copy of a photo - thereby, I may change lighting, form, pose, color, or any other thing as it suits the composition and the work itself. While I do provide the client with a photo, I let them know that our purpose is not to just copy the photo, but to create a new artistic work using the photo as a reference tool.

Further, if you want to paint portraits from photos, then you will need to develop the skill of a portrait photographer as well - you are taking the photos, they are part of the artistic process. You might as well give the client the benefit of the photo session as well - my opinion. Maybe you could charge them for it, but to me, it's part of the service I provide.