Visitors' poll

[Linda Brandon]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

frankly, I believe that the forum needs some more engaging and engaged moderators (at least for some of the threads), just like if this were a business, one would be looking for new, more engaged managers. There used to be high brow artisits on the forum; now it seems only Whitaker and Mattelson are left.

I infer that the rest of us are middle or lowbrow? I wish you hadn't remarked on this. Now Marvin is going to challenge me to a game of 3D chess, or (the Horror!) bridge.

[Steven Sweeney]

As a Cro-Magnon brow, artistically speaking, I can yet imagine a number of reasons other than organizational failures as to why a regiment of the elite may not congregate in an internet forum to discuss the biz, and why it's much more complicated than just "getting better people."

1- They don

[Enzie Shahmiri]

Steven I agree with all the points you have made, but there is also a lot to be gained. I am not going to attempt to draw a line between those that are at the top of the ladder and those which are awfully close and do comparisons by name dropping, because that leaves it open for a lot of debate. For the sake of argument, lets talk about the artists who have successfully sold their work in the past, have won awards, might be thinking of conducting a workshop or want to fill classes.

1. Forums offer a "stage" for sharing one's work and technique.
By doing so, any artist whose work is of a certain admirable scale, will inevitable gain a following of admirers. Admirers in turn translate to possible workshop participants.

2. It is a place where you can perfect your teaching skills. For those attempting to make the jump from painter to teacher, this is a perfect place to try out and see what works and what doesn't. Ideas can be gained on what issues to include in one's teaching curriculum.

3. A "world-wide" recruitment opportunity
I have organized several workshops for other artists in the past and I can speak from experience that it is not always easy to fill a room. It's not due to a lack of willing participants, but sometimes it is just hard to get the word out. When you hear workshop participants traveling through continents to attend a workshop, you also often hear that they saw the instructor's work on the net, often through forums.

4. New Client
Other artists can sometimes be potential customers. I have seen many an artist, who has purchased a painting from a fellow artist. A sale is a sale, after all.

Personal Fulfillment

1. Sharing your knowledge
I don't know why, but many artists have the urge to share what they have learned with others and a forum gives them a less structured and less time consuming opportunity then a full scale workshop.

2. Exchange Information
Technical discussions, new materials, news, what a fellow artist has done, etc. Unless you are a very active artist who mingles around a lot, it's a place to stay informed.

3. Learn new things
Yes, even the most accomplished painters out there need to be reminded that there are ways they can improve. Nothing is more deathly than a stagnant technique.

4. Meeting others
Even though darts fly at times and feelings get trampled on, forums also offer an opportunity to meet and converse with a lot of nice people who share the same goals. Even the "top brass" might run into someone they would have otherwise never met.

5. Support
Some artists live in remote areas and have made friends on forums, gotten together outside of cyberspace. All people, no matter what stage in life they are at will have insecurities, feel beaten down and at a loss. It is always nice to find support in someone who actually understands what being an artist means.

In Paris, artists of the same school of thought would get together on a weekly basis, discuss, argue, share and help each other. We on the other hand live in a place, where getting together with a like minded person we can actually do shop talk with lives anywhere from 30 minutes to several hours away. And that's if we are lucky!

I believe that even the most accomplished painter can benefit by being a participant in a forum and I would love to see more participation.

[Steven Sweeney]

No question that the forum provides those benefits to the members and the far greater number who simply come to read.

It's said that there's no better way to be sure that you understand something than to explain it so that another understands it equally well. "Distance learning," of which this forum is a kind, is a difficult way to teach some concepts. When I have critiqued a piece in the past, the motivation was partly selfish -- I was equally engaged in calisthenics to train or retrain my own eye and sensibilities as well as those of the work's creator. I learned something from the effort, or at least reinforced something, and that in turn made it easier for me to critique my own work. I didn't always do particularly well at it, but we're all learning as we go.

I also have benefitted greatly from Forum members' recommendations of books, DVDs and workshops, even if those authors and teachers have never been here "in person." All those materials opened up entire new practices and schools of thought. And I have stolen lots of great ideas from other members themselves, and learned from their example.

Though I have met very few Forum members in person, I have worked and interacted with many, over 4 or 5 or 6 years, which has created bonds of friendship as strong as those with people in my own real world (or IRL, as they say.) I "talk" to several people here more often than I do to some members of my immediate family. My son was in grade school when I somehow first "found" this site, and he's now in college. Only a lot of good will and a feeling of professional value received could make so many people stick around for so long, and it's something that is available to anyone for the price of admission (free). Yes, there is attrition, but there are also new members each week.

So, yes, there are lots of good reasons to be here, to be taking full advantage of what can be found here, and to use the Forum as professional leverage to get the word out about one's own work, workshops, philosophies and the like. My earlier post wasn't intended to muse about why people generally may be reluctant to join and participate, but only to respond to the narrower tacit inquiry as to why the Forum doesn't make an effort to have a greater number of "big names" on staff. (Since I haven't been "on staff" now for about three years, I don't have to ponder exactly how far below the "big name" standard I land, though I know it's a long period of freefall before impact.)

[Sharon Knettell]

In defense of my friend the other moderators- not that they need any.

I work at home, I have no children. I have a great deal more time. I only do portraits when a client shows up to pose, otherwise I do my own work.

I am not :

A: Jumping on planes to photograph a client.
B: Handling a full time or part-time job.
C: Driving kids to school, soccer games, doctors, dentists etc.
D: Cleaning my own house or mowing my lawn.
E: Dragging my kids around to look at colleges.
F: Poring over college scholarship and entrance forms

Again, I have more time.

I had to talk Linda Brandon out of doing endless private painting critiques sent to her by members. She is an extremely kind, talented and generous women, notwithstanding being a full time parent of teenagers, teaching and doing portrait commissions.


Many of us, perhaps in many people minds are lower tier painters, however we struggled and did not have the information given here gratis at the touch of a key pad.

Many people enjoy being entertained, because they are bored. They also want instant answers to why they can't paint- magic bullets. That is not what we are about.

[Enzie Shahmiri]

My earlier post wasn't intended to muse about why people generally may be reluctant to join and participate, but only to respond to the narrower tacit inquiry as to why the Forum doesn't make an effort to have a greater number of "big names" on staff.

I think you made some really good points there. I just wanted to add the flip side of it and point out benefits.

You are absolutely right Sharon! I think regardless how much time any given person has, weather moderator or forum member, we all need to remember that no one gets paid here, everyone has time restrictions (some more than others) and what is being shared is on a voluntary basis. Something that is easily forgotten, but needs to be respected, never the less. We just need more volunteers!

[Linda Brandon]

Geesh, Sharon.
I am aghast. I am not that nice. All I do is paint. You too, I know!

Anyway, I made the highbrow comment to pique Marvin, who is not even reading this thread.

Moi! A second tier portrait painter! Now you tell me.

Seriously - if we worry about judgment - whether we will be deemed Major, Minor or Mediocre, by other artists, bored internet surfers, art critics, the marketplace or history - dear God, does that ever get in the way of getting good work done. I don't care at this point in life whether I'm "good" or not, I'm just trying to create paintings that I like.

And Enzie, you sure are stepping up to the bat - thank you for all your contributions to this place!

[Julie Deane]

"My work may be good enough to qualify, but I'm intimidated by the jury process

I'm just shy in general and don't like to put myself out there on any forum"

The quote above is where I bet a good many members listed on this forum might be emotionally. Of course, being too busy to post might be another very good reason. And it's a very very good reason for a moderator not to be able to do all they wish they could do.

It's hard to put your work up for critique. A person's art is like a piece of yourself. To hear that it needs improvement is difficult to hear but necessary for growth.

I'd rather hear what needs improvement, even if it sends me into temporary despair, than a million "attagirls" with no guidance.

To any artists out there who are afraid to ask for critiques, either on this forum or with fellow artists: please make yourself do it! You will ultimately be happy you did.

Originally Posted by Linda Brandon

I infer that the rest of us are middle or lowbrow? I wish you hadn't remarked on this. Now Marvin is going to challenge me to a game of 3D chess, or (the Horror!) bridge.

Hello Linda:

*More* high brow painters used to be on the forum, is what I wanted to write, meaning member painters who are not moderators (like yourself).

Obviously, as must have been clear from my posts, I did not intend to insult anyone, but just to offer some helpful suggestions.

I still believe having proactive, energizing moderators, who contribute on a regular basis and can keep conversation or debate flowing, is the way to go. Naturally, some people have more outside duties than others, but a minimum of contributing activity is to be expected if one takes on the role of moderator....From our perspective, it's a bit strange to see that this fabulous site has moderators who have been silent for most of the past year or not made substantial, meaningflul contributions.

Gratitude and thanks, of course, to all others who have been active and energizing.

Sybilla

[Bruce Johnson]

I've just finished re reading this thread, I posted several months ago, and the discussion is very interesting. Obviously the forum needs an injection of new ideas, new people or new inspiration. THis is my first year on SOG and I'm still a relatively new portrait artist. ( I painted my first portrait 3 years ago, today) I work hard at my portraiture and avidly seek out any source of information in order to improve my painting. This can be via attending art galleries, shows, workshops from visitng pro artists, joining societies and of course participating in forums similar to SOG. There are many artists out there just like me who also seek input. We are prepared to pay.
There are also many top level portrait artists out there who are striving to make a living, this includes second tier aritists ( as previously descibed) and don't have time to do freebie critiquing.
I can see an obviously solution. If there was a section on SOG were I could pay a professsiosnal or talented artist to critque my work I would willingly pay. Any artist that wished to participate could list their name on the SOG section and members could contact them via email or PM for a critique. SOG would retain a small fee for the service. The critiquing artist would be reimbursed for his/her time and the member artist would get a critique from an artist they admire and respect. WIn/win. Critiques could be posted on SOG for all to read at the discretion of the paying artist. I'd have no problem posting my critiques for all to read as i had already gained the value of having my work critiqued .

Just a thought.

Bruce