Do you size Masonite?

[Allan Rahbek]

Originally Posted by Richard Budig

Gary:

Sorry . . . I use "gesso" without defining which one. I use the acrylic version since it is easier (IMHO) to deal with. Little or now mixing, etc.

In my recent "trail," I've been using straight out of the tub, thick and gooey, and that infernal hardboard (the rough side) just keeps slurping it down. Not going to do that anymore.

I have used the Acrylic Gesso for some canvases. After sizeing with Animal glue (bone ) 2 times and a light sanding I gessoed 2 times. When I use such a canvas I like to oil it over from the start.

You can use Animal Skin Glue, Acrylic binder or even Linseed Oil with White spirit if you let it dry well before gessoing on Masonite. I never use the rough side.

The Acrylic Gesso is best for canvas because of the flexibility of Acrylic binder. If you prefer traditional Gesso be sure to make it an Oil, Egg and Glue Gesso.

Allan

[Lisa Ober]

Originally Posted by Allan Rahbek

When I use such a canvas I like to oil it over from the start.

That is an excellent idea! I find that gesso on any board is quite thirsty. Oiling out before painting is a fantastic solution to that problem.

On another note, I like to use MDF instead of masonite (hardboard). You won't have the problem with those fine fibers on the sides (where the board was cut) soaking up moisture. That problem is much like getting window cleaner under a glass tabletop. It's impossible to eliminate. With MDF, the composite is consistent throughout and fairly stable. It weighs a bit more but is available in 1/4" thickness which isn't too bad.

I know that doesn't exactly fit the original question but it's a thought to consider.

[Sharon Knettell]

A while ago, I had a long talk with Micheal Harding the English paint maker. He said MDF board was the most stable paint surface available. It really does not need any sizing, just paint on it. I use it for my large pastels. Just give it a light sanding to make the paint adhere better.

No gesso, no nothing. Simple and archival.

[Allan Rahbek]

Originally Posted by Sharon Knettell

It really does not need any sizing, just paint on it. I use it for my large pastels. Just give it a light sanding to make the paint adhere better.

No gesso, no nothing. Simple and archival.

Sharon,
I guess that you mean, no gesso when used for pastels ?

When used for oil I would prefer a light painted ground of some kind. If it should be gesso or simply oil paint depends on the grade of absorbency you prefer.

Allan

[Sharon Knettell]

Lisa,

The same stuff, just make sure it is MDF, not MDO. It is great stuff.

Actually, I left out a minor step, you do have to size it with rabbit skin glue, something you can cook on top of your stove. Ralph Mayer's book has the method.

That is right, NO GESSO for oils! The man is a wealth of information, I spent 2 1/2 hours with him on the phone,

You have to gesso for pastel because you need the grit.

Mr. Harding says it is one of the best and most stable supports around. Much better than any wood panel on the market and way better than canvas.

My cabinet maker suggest having it cradled in thicker widths of MDF, but you can use oak which is quite strong.

Allan, if you want want a lighter background, just use white paint over the glue.

Cheap, archival and easy.

[Lisa Ober]

Sharon, do you know why it has to be sized? Jus curious.

[Sharon Knettell]

Lisa,

After 2 1/2 hours on the phone with him, my head was buzzing, and I did not ask.

Two reasons I suspect.

1) The acid from the oils would not be able to react with the substrate
2)The oils would not be easily absorbed by the MDF so would not look dead and dry.

[Max Howard]

Originally Posted by Sharon Knettell

It really does not need any sizing, just paint on it. I use it for my large pastels. Just give it a light sanding to make the paint adhere better.

No gesso, no nothing. Simple and archival.

I wouldn't recommend doing that when using oils. Any natural fiber support be it MDF, Masonite, linen, or cotton will eventually suffer deterioration from the acids present in oil paint. The rule of thumb when using natural fiber supports is to size them with either a hide glue or acrylic emulsion.

Ooops! I missed post #14

[Sharon Knettell]

Max,

It was a LONG conversation, and I was writing from memory, a bad choice on my part. I remembered the sizing part, to my horror, only when my head hit the pillow.

Some artists like the luminosity of a gesso surface, some a naturally toned surface, but Max you are right, BOTH HAVE TO BE SIZED.

[Jean Kelly]

Hi Brenda,

This should take you to a discussion of cradling with a photo:

http://forum.portraitartist.com/showthread.php?t=5720

I forgot to finish that thread, Guerilla Glue is the the winner. It will hold forever.

Jean