Establishing trust

Heidi Maiers · 01-13-2005, 12:34 PM

Well said Chris,
Unless you want to look at this job as time spent thickening your skin and learning how to deal with people who are impossible to please, you are in a no win situation. If she hates pictures of herself, she will hate any painting also

Kimberly Dow · 01-13-2005, 01:51 PM

[QUOTE=Heidi Maiers]

So I guess Kim, you need to ask yourself what you have to gain from accepting this commission: Will you produce a painting that you can be proud of (I think yes) and that will long be appreciated by its new owners (I think not)?
Do you have time to spend on a painting that may or may not sell, or do you have other clients waiting? If you have clients waiting, move on.
Do you expect to get future commissions from this work? If the leader of the pack decides she doesn

Mike McCarty · 01-13-2005, 02:10 PM

How about doing her in profile, more of a suggestion of her than a dead straight on look that begs scrutiny. Looking into a vase of flowers maybe.

Ask her how she will feel about her looks five years from now. Maybe she'll begin to look better.

Allan Rahbek · 01-13-2005, 02:47 PM

Kim,
Feel like I have seen here visage somewhere. I think that you should trust your self and pick the best possible reference and make the painting the way YOU see her.

This may come as a surprise to her. But anyway you will be gambling with your time, so why not present her for the portrait that she did not knew that she wanted?

If she don

Elizabeth Schott · 01-13-2005, 08:18 PM

Kim it's time to pull out the ala-carte menu as the pricing goes.

If you feel the photography is going to extensive measures after she and you discussed the composition, it will cost more. She will need to understand this. I know some of the wealthier people can be problematic, but they are usually speaking from someone else's experience, so maybe just have a talk with her about her concerns and that you are sensing she is having hesitations. This could lead to you being up front about your process as a painter, yet explaining you still are a business woman.

I agree with all the wisdom above and if there are parts of herself she doesn't like, paint like Leffel and put it in the shadows.

About the supports, you didn't mention the size. But in my on going, current portrait I have learned to never use a panel at the larger size. Like Marvin said, stretched linen was designed for larger pieces and I know Bill Whitaker uses panels tons, but not on large pieces. Again she might be speaking from someone else's experiences, and the feel of a stretched linen is a bit more exciting than a panel.

In my limited experience, I only hope you got the deposit money before starting. And if the price is right, and connections made - practice your politics!

Kimberly Dow · 01-13-2005, 08:59 PM

Thank you Mike, Allen and Beth!

I'm feeling fairly optimistic at this point. We had a good meeting and she made a decision - with some hearty pushing from me.

I did a neat little trick just for her. I displayed her photo on the computer screen with a closeup of her face as large as I could get it - than I used one of the software programs to lightly soften the photo. I told her that this in effect would be how I would be painting her - not with all little lines and marks - but with softness. We had a nice chat about her areas of concern and I flat out told her no when she asked about changing the shirt color again. Well- I actually said 'I dont care for that color at all." Getting a bit firmer with her seemed to work well.

I still do have several references to work from, but they are all almost exactly the same in lighting, pose, etc. - so it shouldnt be too difficult.

Believe it or not - when she wrote my check out she offered to pay more because the original contract had stated gessoboard and I had ordered it previously. I declined since I can use it for another painting.

I showed her samples of work on canvas vs gessoboard and showed her the supports with no paint on them. She preferred the canvas for the more 'painterly' surface - so there we have it.

There has been lots of discussion here about contracts and payments - what I have been doing recently is taking $300 down when the contract is signed -this is for the photo shoot(s) only. Then after a reference is decided on they pay half.

OK - I have a headache from smiling too much. Thanks for all the suggestions - now for the fun part - the actual painting.

Linda Brandon · 01-13-2005, 11:02 PM

Hi Kim,

This is all good (and interesting) advice. I paint a lot of older women and I really enjoy doing so. I go out of my way to reassure them that I find them very beautiful and I am going to do the very best that I can to make them look fantastic. To do this you really have to believe as an artist that it's not just the young women who are interesting. (I have a vested interest in taking this position, by the way.

)

I never hesitate to find the most flattering way to look at somebody. Let somebody else do the wrinkled character studies - it won't be me! Remember that you can do lots of "easy" steps such as lenghtening necks and fingers and taking out jowls and you will still get a convincing likeness and make your client happy.

Elizabeth Schott · 01-13-2005, 11:14 PM

Quote:

There has been lots of discussion here about contracts and payments - what I have been doing recently is taking $300 down when the contract is signed -this is for the photo shoot(s) only. Then after a reference is decided on they pay half.

Kim as I was told... you are not a photographer! 30 to 40% down at contract, so you get bigger bucks for your composition, sketches and photo's!

Glad you resolved this, it could get you lots of business aye?

Kimberly Dow · 01-13-2005, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda Brandon

Hi Kim,

This is all good (and interesting) advice. I paint a lot of older women and I really enjoy doing so. I go out of my way to reassure them that I find them very beautiful and I am going to do the very best that I can to make them look fantastic. To do this you really have to believe as an artist that it's not just the young women who are interesting. (I have a vested interest in taking this position, by the way.

)

I never hesitate to find the most flattering way to look at somebody. Let somebody else do the wrinkled character studies - it won't be me! Remember that you can do lots of "easy" steps such as lenghtening necks and fingers and taking out jowls and you will still get a convincing likeness and make your client happy.

Your right on Linda. I have never had a client I didnt find attractive - so far anyway - so I havent had to fake it. Sounds shallow, but anyone who is going to pay me to do what I love becomes most gorgeous anyway.

At a show recently a woman asked if I ever did older women - and I said yes, that I was about to do so-and-so - but I realized she was looking at several of my figuratives that were all gorgeous young women. So - I am very pleased to be doing this commission for that reason as well.

Beth - I guess in my mind the thought of charging the $300 for the photo shoot is to protect myself if that is as far as we ever go. It's in addition to the cost of the portrait. I am going on the assumption that I can take hundreds of photos and showing the best ones to the client will help seal the deal. I know that is not how most here do it generally - I may have to re-think it. The downside is that with only 300 in so far - there is more of an easier out for the client - a small loss if they change their minds. I've yet to have a client that is what I would consider wealthy - at least not for commissions. I've sold a few paintings to wealthy clients, but as far as commissions go I am still working towards reaching the right audience. Yes - hopefully this will lead to more. I have my heart set on Tom Selleck myself - her husband hunts with him - woohoo.