College classes nowadays

[Kimberly Dow]

Jimmie - You mean you dropped the class you are taking now? Didn't you feel that getting in front of a live model was time well spent - even if the instructor was no good? You better not stop the painting - your going to be extrememly good - you are so skilled & determined.

This class I attended was just as just a visitor - not for instruction. It was a way to get in front of a live person for awhile (for free). I knew when I saw this instructors work in person that she didnt have anything to offer me. She did try awfully hard to impress upon me that she was a professional artist with loads and loads of shows, not just a teacher....I don't know what that was all about, but it was uncomfortable. I did try to have a conversation with her, but she didn't let me get a word in. At least she didn't try to instruct me while I was sketching.

[Julie Gerleman]

I'm currently back at university to finish my fine arts degree. I dropped my program the first time because I had a chance to study with a 'neo-classical' painter outside of the university and I had become disillusioned with university classes. I mean, gee, I sort of wanted an education to go along with that degree! By leaving school and becoming and apprentice, I got it.

But what I found is a lack of degree of any sort narrows professional opportunities (BFA's are highly regarded in the graphic design sector, where I work), so here I am again, back finishing up my last 5 classes to finish up (albeit at a different, and as far as I can tell, even worse school which would have been hard for me to imagine). How I'll make it through this next year without busting blood vessels in my temples is anyone's guess. Lucky for me it's an open syllabus with students having entirely free reign over assignments and subject matter.

But you should have seen the look of perplexity on my instructor's face when I informed him that the rows and columns of little squares on my raw-umber washed canvas was a neatly organized study of skin tones I was planning on using as reference material for my paintings of figures and portraits I would be doing in his class. He thought it was a 'really neat' painting and I might consider using it as one of my actual paintings for the class. Good grief. He also seemed to have a hard time understanding that I intended - intended the palette to actually follow what skin tones you might see in real life. That I didn't necessarily want my palette to 'push the edge' or whatever.

To be fair, his landscape paintings are gorgeous and I could actually learn a lot from him about color - if I actively tap him for info. He might have just been shocked that one of his students values technique and study and realism. I don't know. But -- is it normal for a university painting instructor to not know who Nelson Shanks is? Or Daniel E. Greene? Or is it me; do I simply live on another planet?

Wow, I just ranted a blue streak there. Sorry 'bout that. Just frustrated and I feel sorry for the kids in my class who obviously haven't been given a good art education because their teachers didn't want to 'stifle their creativity'. Grr. Me, I got lucky. I never realized that till now, never was properly thankful for it, either. In my case it was my high school art teacher who was a stickler for technique and he taught us tons.

Oh, and Cynthia, I'm really, really happy this forum exists. I learn something here every time I visit. In fact, I think I just figured out how I'm going to avoid busted blood vessels for the remainder of the time I'm at school - check in here often.

Thanks, and thanks again.

[Chris Saper]

Dear Julie and Kim,

Unfortunately, I will tell you that university fine arts courses are EXACTLY as they were 30 years ago. Representational fine arts education is what you get outside the university setting.

That being said. no one has ever been ill-served by a four year degree. It's just not relevant to what we do here as painters. However, it is most certainly relevant to any number of publishers, editors, and some educational organizations (if you are thinking that teaching is part of what you will do).

Is it too late to pick up a minor in a useful, if unrelated, field?

[Julie Gerleman]

Originally Posted by Chris Saper

Is it too late to pick up a minor in a useful, if unrelated, field?

I think it's too late for me - I've only got a few more classes to get my paper. I think, if I had to do this all over again, at the very least, I'd do a lot more research. All art programs are not created equal and all that. But what I'd probably end up doing is get a degree in business/marketing/graphic arts (major/minor combination of some sort), taking as many elective fine arts classes as I could fit into my schedule. Then later, I'd take time off now and then and travel to take workshops through ateliers or artists I admire. Marketing and business - essential, I'm finding. Everyone here seems to be rather good at it and I don't think that's coincidental.

But it's interesting to know that things haven't changed in the last 30 years. Unfortunate, too. For now I'm just going to have to resign myself not to expect too much; I'll get a degree out of this regardless. But I already know a real art education is going to take the rest of my life.

Anyone out there had a good experience with university art classes? Any programs you'd recommend? If so, which universities, which instructors? Perhaps that info might be useful to people who are interested in pursuing BFAs and happen across this post.

[Chris Saper]

As I think about this question, I certainly don't know of anything current. Nonetheless, perhaps it makes sense to have double major - fine arts, and something "practical". Although a university student is unlikely to get the fine art experience most of us have in mind, it still provides many hundreds of hours of life drawing experience. That is never wasted. Plus, it keeps one happy.

[Matthew Severson]

I was completely disappointed when I enrolled in college last fall. My drawing class was in a messy lab in the basement of the college, and the room was entirely lit with fluorescent overhead lighting. After each session the teacher would have us post up our art work and critique each other's work. However, we were told to only make positive comments... "Define critique for me?"
I hope to transfer to the Art Academy of Chicago in about a year, so hopefully things will get better!

Matthew

[October Reader]

Just a suggestion Kim, since you obviously have so much more knowledge, and it seems to me the particular group of students you described here definitely can benefit from it. And, from my impression of your posts here on this forum, I assume you like sharing and coaching, why not try a lecturer post or the like there. Your husband can probably get you connected through the right channel.

A regular paycheck will more likely than not fuel your passion for more enjoyable work and less worry over practical issues. Not to mention avoiding headaches over how to please exceedingly difficult clients.

[Rob Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Marvin Mattelson

It doesn't have to be this way.

It's not this way all the time, but more often than not.

I got lucky (!) in finding Marvin just when I needed traditional guidance in technique. I didn't know how lucky then, but I do now. Not much has changed in BFA programs countrywide.

Besides putting what I'd learned into my own work with some degree of success, the most obvious way to thank Marvin and all those who've passed down what is, at least, a 600-year-old tradition, is to continue passing it down.

Although the bulk of my teaching is in Continuing Ed programs, I have "infiltrated" the BFA program at a New Hampshire art school. It's great, but I am teaching Illustration 1 (and 2 next semester). A great deal of what the students are now asking me have so much to do with traditional drawing and painting techniques. The curriculum being what it is, I don't have the proper time to really teach these things extensively. I'm doing what I can, but what would make better sense would be my teaching representational drawing and painting at the Foundation level, so those tools may be applied to the work in Illustration. But, there's a problem with that - and this is part of why things are still "that way," as Marvin puts it.

I will probably never be allowed to teach drawing or painting at the BFA level, because I do not have an MFA. My professional experience, my successes in teaching, my very ability to get solid results are nullified by my lack of a $30,000 piece of paper. It literally has nothing to do with art - it's the requirement as laid down by a Board of Directors that makes this so.

I'm not going back to school just to have this piece of paper. Were I to go back into the classroom, I would want to be under the direction of a real master, to make it worth my while. There are no MFA programs in this part of the country with that sort of faculty (are there anywhere?). In fact, the teachers in most MFA programs that I've researched are guilty of even more sloth than the lousy BFA teachers. "Sanctity of expression must be nurtured over the confinement of content.." so sayeth one vacuous blurb from an MFA brochure. I'm not about to give any money toward that.

So, tradition gets relegated to the Continuing Ed level. I don't care so much about salary or tenure or any of that stuff - I just want to get these kids while they're hungry for it. Some of them truly are, I've seen it. It's disappointing... but I'll keep the traditions alive wherever they stick me.