Legal?

Mary Sparrow · 12-28-2003, 08:15 AM

Thanks to so much fabulous advice here, I understand more than ever the value of a good resource photo.

I'm wanting to update my website and get some of the old things OFF. I am also wanting to practice, practice, practice, when I am not working on a commission.

I have been doing searches on the internet of portrait photography to study the lighting etc. and every now and again, I come across a photo that I have an urge to paint. Is it wrong to print that out and paint it? And, what if I end up really really liking this and would like to use it as a sample work? Not to sell and profit from it, however, I guess indirectly I would profit from it. Is that illegal? If so, I won't even go there.

Would anyone be interested in starting an image resource section? They have one at Wet Canvas but the portrait images are very lacking.

Jeff Fuchs · 12-28-2003, 09:21 AM

Photographers like to crop too closely for portrait work, but I've found lots of fodder at www.photo.net.

If you're really smitten with a photo, you could try emailing the photographer before you even start. If you have permission in advance, you'll eliminate lots of problems.

Personally, I draw from found photos all the time, but I consider it strictly a practice resource. I've seen artwork for sale on ebay and on artists websites that were made from photo references I was familiar with. To me, this cheapens the artist in my eyes, and makes me question the originality of his whole portfolio, not just the ones I recognize.

Michele Rushworth · 12-28-2003, 10:57 AM

Working from another person's photo without their permission is a copyright violation, and can cause trouble particularly if you ever show it on the web (which can count as "publishing" the image or as "public exhibition") or if you include the resulting artwork in your portfolio.

Doing this may also open you up to a lawsuit from the person depicted in the photo unless their permission is given to use their image. Check out the copyright and model's release threads of SOG for more info.

Taking good photos of subjects is not that hard and doesn't require any more equipment to get started than a point-and-shoot camera and a window.

Part of the fun of portraiture is creating the whole image from concept to finish, yourself. Copying photos taken by others just makes us very expensive photocopy machines, in my opinion.

Mary Sparrow · 12-28-2003, 12:10 PM

I understand what you are saying, and agree completely. But there are times however, that I am just in the mood to paint..don't have access to someone to paint, etc, and just want to paint for the sake of painting. So It would be nice to have access to some good resource photos to pull from in such occasions, that....IF they turned out to be something I was proud of I could use in my portfolio.

Michele Rushworth · 12-28-2003, 01:21 PM

Here's what I have done (and continue to do): Talk to several people you know whom you would like to paint and who would perhaps make good sample portraits (little girl/little boy/woman/man/siblings/couples/corporate, etc). Ask them if they would pose for a half hour photo session. Most of them will be quite flattered. Make up a simple model's release that says it's okay for you to produce artwork from their image and use the resulting painting in your marketing efforts. Then you could either pay them the going rate of $12 or so an hour as a model, or give them a few 8x10 prints of the best photos as a thank you.

This way you will always have plenty of your own reference material lying around that you can draw or paint from whenever the mood strikes. Then when you create another of your wonderful portraits based on these photos, you can confidently splash the resulting images across your business cards, website, and even hang the painting in a show without fear of repercussions of any kind.

And best of all, the entire work, from concept to composition to lighting to the painting execution itself, is all your own creation.

If there's even the slightest chance that whatever we paint or draw will please us enough that we will want to show it in our portfolios, (and of course many of them will) then we owe it to ourselves to get reference material that doesn't violate copyright laws, or privacy laws concerning images of people.

The time we have available to work on our art is so very limited. Why create a beautiful work of art if we can't show it to people via our portfolio, or if the work is only half our own because it's a copy of someone else's photo?

Mike McCarty · 12-28-2003, 04:25 PM

I would ditto Michele's comments. I am constantly on the lookout for people to photograph for future projects. Presently, and for a very long time, I have been looking for a natural red head (women are clever, and I am easily fooled). When I find this person I have visioned I will tackle them around the knees (all restraining orders should lapse in '04).

I keep these photos in a file and when the urge (or lack of business) strikes, I thumb through them.

My ego, recently calculated in a university study to be somewhere between large and extra large, won't allow me to use (except in rare circumstances) another persons creation. I just can't stand to think that someone else had a hand in my work.

My advice would be to take Michele's advice.

Celeste McCall · 12-28-2003, 04:47 PM

Dear Mike,

You need Ben Konis's wife for your pictures! She's beautiful and used to model. She's still beautiful.

My favorite model was a model a long time ago. Her name is Evelyn Nesbit. There are lots of photos from the Smithsonian of her. Her bone structure is what I use. Beautiful!

Mary Sparrow · 12-28-2003, 05:37 PM

I get it!..LOL, and will start looking for models. The problem I have though, is all I really want to paint are children. I happen to have 3 beautiful children, I have spent three days trying to get a decent photo of just ONE, ANYONE! and they all stink and I'm tired.

Anyway, I will continue to take more, and then aggravate the mess out of my neices and nephews.You are all right, I need to practice both ends of this spectrum anyway.

HOWEVER, for what it's worth, I asked the same question in the legal section at wet canvas and this was the response given to me-

"As long as you do not sell the work, and make very sure to document your source of the photo and title it "Study," you will then be operating under "Fair Use".

There is nothing wrong with using studies in your portfolio, as long as you make sure anyone viewing them will not confuse your work as an original, hence the word "study" and the source citing."

Michele Rushworth · 12-28-2003, 07:59 PM

There is a second, equally important reason for using your own photos to paint from. You want all the work in your portfolio to look like real commissions so that your clients see you as an experienced pro. Titling something "Study" and crediting another photographer defeats that purpose.

The legal advice you got on the other forum sounds highly risky to me, in any case. You should probably contact one of the free "lawyers for the arts" to be sure. I've done a fair bit of research into art copyright law and I've never heard of any provisions like they suggested. Better safe than sorry.

There are lots of tips in the SOG photography section, and in various books recommended here and elsewhere, on how to photograph wiggly children. FYI: I shoot over a hundred photos when photographing a subject of any age, and I shoot more if it's a little kid. They're all shot from the same vantage point. That means I don't move and the subject doesn't move from the spot where we start the photo session. That's just so I can get one or two good shots to work from.

It's worth the effort.

Leslie Ficcaglia · 01-01-2004, 11:17 PM

Mary, I'm an inveterate photographer and have tons of potential resource pictures of my kids, family, and friends. I'll bet if you looked you'd find plenty of raw material in your photo archives or albums. If not, get your circle of family and friends used to what it means to have an artist at large. With kids I find I can do well if I've got them in a chair (or highchair for a little one) or in some other location where they're used to remaining somewhat immobile. Engross them in a puzzle or a television program. Practice, practice, practice, and you'll find that the skills you develop with your own children will serve you in good stead with commissioned subjects of the kid-type.