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Old 03-27-2003, 05:56 PM   #11
Steven Sweeney Steven Sweeney is offline
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Sorry about the jargon. I'm attaching an image of your drawing, on which I've marked the parallels I was referring to.

The transom is the flat part of the back of a boat where, for example, you'd install an outboard motor or, as I've done for your little boat here, a rudder.

I'm not sure the type on the image will be readable. Everything I know about Photoshop was learned at Etch-a-Sketch School, and I'm due for a refresher course.
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Old 03-27-2003, 07:03 PM   #12
Steven Sweeney Steven Sweeney is offline
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Quote:
this drawing's deficits, which are as numerous as I suspected.
You'll be more comfortable and gain confidence more quickly if you think in terms of what's working and what's not quite working, rather than in terms of "deficits" or how you've failed. This is a nice piece as is, people like it, and it really wouldn't have occurred to me to make any particular critical suggestions about it, save in response to your specific questions.

Despite my writing at length, I wouldn't characterize my suggestions as an overhaul -- more like a tune-up. Most of the adjustments would be very slight and easily executed.

If you've learned only not to trust the darks in the typical reference photograph, you'll have learned a lot from this project.
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Old 03-28-2003, 01:08 AM   #13
Valerie Gudorf Valerie Gudorf is offline
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Steven,

Thanks to you, I've learned a lot more than not to trust the values in my photo reference! And thanks to your encouragement, I believe that I will indeed attempt to render this composition in watercolor. I love a challenge.

By the way, this little boy's trapezius muscles (now that I know what and where they are) are indeed as pronounced as they appear in the drawing.
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Old 04-19-2003, 05:01 AM   #14
Lon Haverly Lon Haverly is offline
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Nice work, Valerie, and I commend you for your dedicaton. I am not an expert on this type of drawing, nor can I do it. I find the greatest school is the one of experience. "Just do it" is the term someone used.
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Old 04-19-2003, 10:06 AM   #15
Sharon Knettell Sharon Knettell is offline
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Composition

I hate to disagree with some of the very thoughtful comments that have been made on this piece.

I find this to be a very beautiful piece.

A: the composition is very original and well executed. Squint and you will see how the triangular shape of the sail brings the attention to the face. You will see how the patterns of her shadows reinforce the overall design.

B: The question of the red boat, it works because of the strong directionals of the composition, which serve to keep the eye moving toward the head.

C: When you are doing spots of color, there seems to be an unwritten law, like bouquets of flowers, one, three, five.

Valerie, you have a very natural and original sense of design. You also know how to design a figure in the pictorial sense. A little more refinement in the drawing would be good, but that comes with time and practice.

Sincerely,
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Old 04-20-2003, 08:42 AM   #16
Sharon Knettell Sharon Knettell is offline
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Editing

Valerie,

I am not an atelier trained artist either, when I went to art school I was unaware such things existed. My school was unfortunately dedicated to abstract expressionism.

What, and I can only assume, was the purpose of drawing from the casts, is besides a knowledge of form is the fine art of editing. The arists who made the original sculptures for these casts had learned form but had also learned the more subtle arts of refinement. In other words they distilled what they saw, simplifying and embellishing the raw material in front of them. Perhaps there were too many neck creases etc., the face needed to have its forms simplified and so on. They were designing what was in front of them according to their eyes was aesthetic or mirrored their point of view, not just slavishly rendering every wart and pore.

This is the same principle that needs to be addressed in photo-realism. Photo-realism does not mean copying every minutiae, it means adding your own spin on things.

I would check out Ingres drawings to study.

In your picture in particular, as other have pointed out it means simplfying forms, emphasizing some and eliminating anything that distracts or is not necessary to your statement.

Sincerely,
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Old 04-20-2003, 12:16 PM   #17
Valerie Gudorf Valerie Gudorf is offline
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Sharon,

Thank you so much for your kind appraisal of "Red Boat". When designing the composition of the piece, I had indeed hoped that the triangular lines of the sails would lead the eyes to the child's head. Perhaps when I paint it in watercolor this design feature will work more emphatically. As I said earlier, I wanted the piece to be more about childhood, and less about the child himself (despite the fact that the child is my son). I suspect that the use of full color will more unify the boat with the rest of the composition.

Unfortunately, I never attended art school of any type, so everything I've learned thus far has been from books and a scattered personal curriculum. It makes me feel very insecure as an artist. I would give just about anything to be enrolled in an atelier. At mid-life, I don't feel that I have the luxury of fiddling around. If I am to become accomplished as quickly as possible, I need a time tested and exacting course of study.

The good news is that I have access to the wisdom and talent of fine artists such as yourself. I think I had a "light-bulb moment" when Steven spoke of the editorial possibilites of this drawing. Real art is all about editing -- editing to strengthen! Now I'll focus my attention in that direction more diligently.

I think that drawing from casts is an excellent way to train the eye to see shapes, forms and values. I've been thinking about buying some inexpensive garden statuary from a nursery center for the express purpose of "cast drawing".
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Old 05-15-2003, 10:19 AM   #18
Sergio Ostroverhy Sergio Ostroverhy is offline
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Copying from a photo is always harder than from reality...if we want to progress in the understanding of the basic notions of how to reproduce reality.

It seems to me (may be I am wrong) that to get the illusion of volume from our model it is not sufficient to reproduce the light/shadow contrast in a mechanical way, but also to underline which light is lighter, which shadow is darker. For instance: the lights towards the source of light is always lighter and so on. There are laws in painting which must be respected

-When we draw after reality we unconsciously are trying to understand or notice these laws.

-After a photo, it is like to heat up a ready "Pizza."

In my personal experiences each time I draw after a photo it became a disaster from the point of view of taste. When I draw after photo plus the model was next to me, in the best case it became "photorealism."

When I draw after a life model, a portrait I mean, and the person took the courage sit for weeks. What came out besides a satisfying picture is also an extraordinary human contact.

I will not enter into the technical problems of that drawing because the positive effect from it is quite evident.
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Old 05-17-2003, 12:58 AM   #19
Valerie Gudorf Valerie Gudorf is offline
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Sergio,

You are, of course, quite right about the perils of drawing from a photograph. I wish I could convince even just a few people to sit long enough for me to draw a complete portrait from life. I had to bribe my son to pose for this photo (he only allowed me to fire off three shots---good thing one of them was fairly usable) before he bolted for the house!

At this stage in my development, I am not a "quick draw". I would need for my model to endure several protracted sittings in order to achieve a satisfactory drawing from life. Every time I attempt to draw a portrait from a live sitter, I'm intensely aware of how bored and uncomfortable they seem to be getting (after only a few minutes, even!), and it makes me feel quite anxious. I also worry about their reaction to my efforts after they have endured sitting still for so long. "A model! A model! My kingdom for a model!"

I like your analogy of the reference photo as, "ready to heat pizza". It is quite true for all but the most accomplished artists.
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