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Old 10-29-2002, 07:07 PM   #21
Steven Sweeney Steven Sweeney is offline
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Mark,

I don't know that there's really any item of disagreement. It's just an exercise. Not everyone will try it, not all who do try it will benefit from it. Something else will work for them.

I first picked up a guitar nearly 40 years ago and to this day I still warm up with a series of silent fretboard exercises that stretch out and limber up the hand, so that when I go to the music and read, say, D sharp, I "remember" from those "tracing" exercises what it feels like to extend the correct finger to the correct string and fret. That's all. It's no big deal. The exercises aren't music, and aren't supposed to be.

For the discipline, I also spent too much time in a dojo, and in retrospect I think all those endless hours of kata were a "tracing" exercise as well. People kept punching and kicking me, though, so I transferred to gentler arts.
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Old 10-29-2002, 08:32 PM   #22
Mark Branscum Mark Branscum is offline
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You know, Steven, I know why sometimes I don
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Old 10-29-2002, 11:24 PM   #23
Michael Fournier Michael Fournier is offline
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I am sure tracing is a useful exercise for some. We all learn things in our own way. And no one way should be forced on anyone. In the end if you can draw I suppose the road you took to get there does not matter.

But I still feel that some people are just born with a talent for things and art is no exception. Playing the piano was mentioned and Mark said
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I have had those that have strong ability or training even in the reading of music, who, however, couldn't play at all.
I will take that one step further how about those with no formal training at all that can hear a song once then sit down and play it. Or have composed their own music but have no formal training? We say they are gifted.

I do not consider myself to be a prodigy or the next Michelangelo by any means. But I truly feel that without at least some gifted talent for art no amount of exercises, training or instruction will make you a great artist.

Just as anyone might learn to play piano, anyone can learn to draw or paint at a basic level. But just as not everyone can become a great composer, not everyone can become a great artist.

I myself often question if I will ever become the artist I hope to be, and maybe I never will. I do know that compared to some, drawing did come easy to me. But compared to those who I consider to be great artists, I still fall short. Is it because of a lack of talent I fall short? Or maybe it is because I did not trace enough

Yes, the more we draw and paint the better we get and a lot of greatness comes from hard work. So talent alone is not enough. But I feel that innate talent is key to being able to grasp the skills it takes to even start down that road of hard work towards greatness. And maybe that is the gift - not an ability but some intangible quality that drives one towards perfection to get past that hard work, to when it becomes second nature. I don't know. But I just do not feel that there is a short cut to learning anything.

Now I am not the best artist I know of, but I have been asked how I got as good as I am. And to tell the truth although I have practiced, I have to say I really can't attribute my ability to draw to any thing except, to steal from Nike "I just do it". I see it and I draw it I see it and I paint it. And those better then me do the same. They are just better at it then I. I am not ready to throw in the paint rag yet, because I feel that there is room in the field of art for artists of all levels, but maybe it is time that we face the truth. Artists like Nelson Shanks (you may replace this with any artist you consider great here) were just born with a gift we do not have. We could work the rest of our lives and never be as good. Tracing or no tracing.
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Old 10-29-2002, 11:47 PM   #24
Mark Branscum Mark Branscum is offline
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Gifts from God,

I for one believe in gifts from God, as a Pastor, as my Father before me, I was raised believing God gives us gifts or talents as some might say.

I know He gave me the talents I have, but he also made me responsible for them. Was the gift in itself absolute? I mean when my Mother had me, did I come into this world with paintbrush in hand, so to speak, or pencil and pad?

Pardon the exaggeration but just a point, that I look at what I did then (yuck) compared to what I do now. The gift was certainly there absolutely, but so was the responsibility of what to do with it; would I do nothing, then I would still draw at the level I first did. But because I acted from that moment till now I have trained to learn what I do. If I had not practiced, not sought out knowledge, I would have wasted the very talent I was blessed with.

I think respectively, I have restated enough about tracing. Let me add one thought, though: I am not against it. Tracing may have things to teach you, but it's not the end-all or easy way as has been stated, and the dangers around it in place of fundamental training are enough I fear to direct someone on a wrong path.

Oh, and as far as forcing someone in learning a certain way I wouldn't even attempt it; it was never my intent nor my point at all. No one needs me or anyone else to force them to have to practice the basic fundamentals of drawing..
In the end, all who trace will realize that when they wish to proceed further, they will have to learn like all the rest.

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Old 04-21-2005, 11:35 AM   #25
Anthony Emmolo Anthony Emmolo is offline
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In the past I've made the naive mistake of tracing a drawing with the intention of changing certain aspects of it to suit my aim for the finished product. As soon as I stopped tracing and began my attempt at drawing, I was staring reality in the face. I didn't have a clue at to what to do next. So, I began to learn to draw. (With a bit more humility due to the lesson.)
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Old 04-23-2005, 05:59 PM   #26
Enzie Shahmiri Enzie Shahmiri is offline
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Every time I think I have read every post here I keep finding a new one.

Well, I have to say that when I want a dead on likeness I grid. I can't say that it is a time saving method compared to drawing freehand, but I am not faced with nasty surprises half way into the process.

One thing that working with a grid has taught me is to see everything in abstract shapes. As the shapes kept falling into place (sort of like a puzzle), it became necessary to learn the value relationship between each shape. This alone has been a god send, because I have always struggled with value relationships.

I love to draw and my sketchbook is full with images of people with noses too long, chins too full and god knows what other errors. But the purpose of the sketchbook is just for quick observations and to get something down in the shortest amount of time. This allows for a certain freedom of hand eye coordinations, which gets better over time. As a matter of fact I just recently discovered an old sketchbook and had to laugh pretty hard at what I was seeing. Just about everyone in it has some malformation and looked more like creatures out of horror movies. But imagine how satisfied I was to actually be able to see the growth from one book to another. So I agree with Karin, using shortcut tools like tracing can help you grow as an artist, as long as you balance it with free hand drawing as well.
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Old 04-23-2005, 09:06 PM   #27
John Crowther John Crowther is offline
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I missed this thread first time around, and I answer now with a great deal of trepidation, since the subject seemed to arouse quite a bit of passion. So I quickly add that this is just my opinion. Still, I was surprised that tracing had the approval of so many as a way of learning to draw. It's a way for beginners to get satisfactory results quickly, but getting quick results isn't part of learning anything, building a solid foundation is. And learning to do anything well is a laborious process without shortcuts. We mustn't confuse "quick fixes" with effective pedagogy. Going back to the music analogy, tracing is the equivalent of singing karaoke. The essence of learning to draw is hand-eye coordination, getting the hand to obey the impulses it gets from the brain. The way to do that is constant practice. Copying from the masters, or from photographs, is extremely helpful insofar as it brings the eye and the brain into the process. Tracing doesn't do it, because it bypasses both the eye and the brain. It's a purely mechanical process that doesn't even really develop appreciation for form, since all you do is see lines through an opaque piece of paper. And understanding form is the essence of good drawing.

And by the way, Michelangelo didn't trace on the Sistine ceiling, he transferred to the wet plaster drawings from full-size "cartoons" that were a penultimate step that followed on the heels of many, many drawings made from life models.

Again, just my opinion. I'm not trying to change anyone's way of doing things. Honest.

John C.
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