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Old 02-03-2006, 08:11 AM   #1
Alexandra Tyng Alexandra Tyng is offline
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Oh, but Janet, I do know what you look like. Remember the Grumpy Old Lady?

Speaking of your self-portrait, that's how I know you have it in you.
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Old 02-03-2006, 08:54 AM   #2
Janet Kimantas Janet Kimantas is offline
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I really should say that that was a terribly unflattering self-portrait!
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Old 02-03-2006, 09:50 AM   #3
Richard Monro Richard Monro is offline
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Janet,
I have to agree with the above comments and add the following:
1) This is a beautiful young woman with soft and smooth skin. The transitions in values must be subtle to maintain that soft smooth look.
2) Large value transitions are aging. Consider the models upper left cheek/upper lip crease, the transition should be in a narrower value range. The same holds true for the models right hand.
3) Careful use of color temperature shifts can accomplish your modeling goals without a value change. I notice you are using more temperature changes in your portraits. Good! You are making nice progress.

While I believe the portrait is salvageable, I agree with Alexandra that a redo is recommended. A future side by side comparison would be very instructive.

Keep up the good work. An accomplished painter is beginning to emerge.
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Old 02-03-2006, 01:26 PM   #4
Ilaria Rosselli Del Turco Ilaria Rosselli Del Turco is offline
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Hi Janet, please can you post your palette?

I agree with anyone else . If you decide to do it all over again, I suggest you make some palette changes, to avoid going immediately in the same direction of this painting.
If you "know" already wich colours to use, you might end up with a very similar result.
From this photo I would definetely keep on my palette some Alizarine and Viridian. I think you should really try and mantain the high key, I mean not to darken the shadows too much, but working on the temperature shifts to model the head. If you find some pinks, purples and greens in the lights, you will then be able to state your shadows with warm colours, like Yellow ochre+ alizarine mixtures.
Also your picture will look more mature if you don't paint blue eyes blue with a black dot in, try greyish blue with a warm dark irregular brushstroke in the middle, blurred irises edges and understated catchlight.

How do you transfer the image to the canvas? It looks you are doing well, as all of the features are correctly positioned, but then I think you are scared of loosing it!
If you tend to fill in you won't be able to blur your edges. My other suggestion thus is not to draw everything in detail, rather having a few landmarks for the eyes, nose, mouth, oval etc., but not too detailed. Personally I keep some tracing paper with the drawing that I can superimpose to the dry painting for checking on mistakes.
Good luck, if you repaint it, why not posting a WIP for us ?
Ilaria
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Old 02-03-2006, 06:04 PM   #5
Janet Kimantas Janet Kimantas is offline
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Thank you so much, everybody, for your time. To be honest, I have been wondering if I even have "it" for portraits. The touch, the knack, the feeling. It seems like everything I learn about painting portraits makes my paintings of other things better! It's almost like I can't properly see what I'm trying to do - no, I'm not explaining myself very well. Anyway, the encouragement has been very timely and I suppose I won't throw in the towel just yet. BUT it's really close...

Ilaria, very good call on the palette question. I've been using the "earth colour" option so far, and been questioning it the last couple months. In my hands it is tending to have a heavy, deadening effect and I can't get the transparency I think I want. So, excellent, excellent timing on that advice.

Richard, special thank you for your quiet encouragement during this journey. Although I rather suspect that you only love me for my model...

Is it okay to keep basically doing the same painting over and over again like I have been? I don't have the prestige to allow for an endless flow of willing models (everyone is so busy these days). I have taken some nice shots of my daughter, but she so obviously doesn't enjoy it and the impatience shows (she is surely mini-me).

Anyway, thanks again to all. Janet
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Old 02-03-2006, 06:10 PM   #6
Linda Brandon Linda Brandon is offline
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Hi Janet, I think we are piling up on you.

Try this: in Photoshop, make a greyscale of your photo, then as you paint, shoot a greyscale of your painting. You'll be able to see values of colors much better as they relate to the grays of a value scale. I think that confusing color with value is the main problem with this painting, along with hard edges.

Also, try to take photos where the lights are not blown out so much as you have here. It will make finding form a lot easier. I personally wouldn't try to work from this photo. Be picky, picky, picky.

You have really nice painterly qualities, don't stop posting.
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:50 PM   #7
Richard Monro Richard Monro is offline
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Janet,
I think that you will find that doing the portrait over again while applying the counsel given in this thread will be very encouraging to you as it will show the big leap in progress you are making.

With respect to love, the Greeks have four terms for love. One of them is agape which is principled love. So to keep out of trouble here, let me state I have agape your lovely model and agape for you as a dedicated artist trying to improve her craft. Whew...hope I am home safe on that score.

Don't get discouraged. You have the makings of a very fine artist and you are already 70% maybe 80% ahead of most individuals who try portrait art. Keep the brushes moving.
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Old 02-03-2006, 08:22 PM   #8
Allan Rahbek Allan Rahbek is offline
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Janet,
I have seen your other paintings so I know that you are capable of finishing this one off in a good way too and therefore I will try an additional input on all the other helpful suggestions.

I also believe that the main problem is related to the value range and suggest that you look at your painting from a long distance.

You will probably not be able to get far enough away from your oil painting into your studio to see what I mean. But to test what I mean I suggest that you have a look at the photo reference on the monitor and step about 10 steps (meters) back. At that distance you will hardly be able to see the features in the head, such as pupils, eyebrows and nostrils, but you will still know the person.

Now you place the WIP on the screen and walk back again to look and think of what you actually sees.

I felt that the face fell apart when I looked at it from that distance and I believe that it is because you have over emphasized the features, that characterize her face, so that they over powers the bigger shape of the head.
The problem in doing so is that it looks right, up close to the painting, and in strong light, but not at a distance. And it can only be judged at a distance.

Good luck, Allan
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Old 02-03-2006, 08:57 PM   #9
Janet Kimantas Janet Kimantas is offline
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Oh eeeek, Allan. You may have really nailed it. You see, I have serious problems with my arms and shoulders and am not physically able to paint "at arm's length". I actually have to prop my arm up on my knee to paint. So I don't get back far enough to really see it. I had actually thought that I needed a smooth surface to roll back my chair often enough to get a good look, but hadn't done so. This may explain a lot. Thanks so much. Janet
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Old 02-04-2006, 06:14 AM   #10
Ilaria Rosselli Del Turco Ilaria Rosselli Del Turco is offline
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Janet, you had a big response on this thread, not only because you are a very nice lady, but I think many of us saw themselves.
Personally I can see paintings similar to this one in my recent past, and I especially understand the discouragement and the doubts.
Don't give up!
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