Ethics and art

[John Crowther]

It ultimately doesn't matter what we think, it's what competition organizers think. My best guess, from exposure to some of these folks, is that most of them are, surprise surprise, decent, logical, folks, but we're talking about the occasional nazi. Do you want to risk it? At the same time, do you want to ask if there's a possiblity you'll get shot down? But then, do you want to enter a contest with that kind of draconian attitude. I look at it this way, if I post for critiques it's not because I want everyone to say "wow, you have a winner," it's because I feel there's areas where I need help, which means I've already disqualified myself from entering a competition. If you have a painting that you think is a slam dunk winner, then enter the contest and post it later, possibly to ask why those so and so's didn't recognize my genius.

John C.

[Elizabeth Schott]

Wow, some people are really going to retire comfortably form this forum!

Wait until Cynthia takes her percentage too!

So you get money with these prizes aye?

[Kimberly Dow]

I totally agree with all of you! It would be utterly stupid for someone to say my paintings werent mine - or were supervised from the critiques I got here. I am not trying to be preoccupied or a stickler for rules.

The source of my information was not aiming it at me and actually told me that my changes were so small that no one could question it, but this person mentioned this as a situation that could be read as having help. This is someone who does shows and competitions and has judged them as well. If this person, as an artist feels this is an ethical/rules situation then there are probably more out there who would agree.

I think the chance of it happening is slim, and I am most-likely fine - but with the info coming on the heels of me receiving an award in a national competition...I figure its best to be safe.

Besides I can still post for a critique after a painting is done - and apply any of the abundant knowledge gained to the next piece. This will of course cut all of you out of the tremendous money-making plan of Kim-tries-competitions. I hope this doenst affect anyone's bottom line too drastically....I'd hate to think of you all going hungry.

[Jan Keeling]

That's a shame, Kim, why do you think I joined this forum? I was looking forward to the money stream I would get from offering comments on your work....

[Kimberly Dow]

Jan-

You and everyone else... man, I am sick of supporting all you bums.

[Tom Edgerton]

Sorry, but I think that the notion that you can only enter pristinely unevalutated paintings that have never been seen by eyes other than the artist's, or that have never been commented on or discussed with anyone or reworked as a result of the discussion, is mystifyingly quaint.

How could a competition be set up with these guidelines, with any expectation of them being enforceable? I've juried a number of shows, and it's never occurred to me to wonder whether the works before me were produced by artists with no one looking over their shoulder. If two sets of hands touched the work, I expect to see two names on the card, but I wouldn't attempt to track down this information and verify it. It's the work I'm judging, not the artist.

The English romantic landscapist Turner would finish his paintings on site at academic competitions a couple of days before judging, so that his paintings would glow more than the others in that particular light. Okay, this was pretty scurrilous. But any expectation that the paintings be painted without anyone's feedback is cutting it impossibly fine, to my mind.

Jeez, folks, painting is hard enough, without trying to assert that the only work that is competition-worthy has to be produced in a vacuum.

Love to all--TE

[Jan Keeling]

Thank you, Tom Edgerton. FOR ME, this is the last word on the subject. I really don't see how anyone could disagree with what you said. I am speaking only for myself, of course....

[Kimberly Dow]

I just thought I'd copy and paste this from another forum - it is concerning the same exact subject. The person had written and asked the Oil Painters of America if getting critiques on internet forums would disqualify the artist from competition:

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:31 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had a nice letter from Kathryn Beligratis, Executive Director of OPA.
She writes, "Normally organizations sponsoring art exhibitions discourage
submission of paintings that have been created in a workshop. However, most artists do get input from family, friends and fellow artists on paintings in various stages of completion. Frequently, artists paint together, especially plein air and critique each other's work. This does not result in an unqualified painting as long as the artist has done all the work himself...If the input you receive is no different than what you might receive if a fellow artist stopped by while you were painting or was provided while painting together in a studio or plein air, then you should be comfortable submitting the painting. However, if you feel that your internet group has had a significant impact on your composition there would always be the chance that one of them could present a claim that the painting was not original."


Sounds like I might have been a little too concerned, no?

[Tom Edgerton]

Kim--

Thanks for this...it's a good clarification from a good source. I appreciate your posting it.

Best--TE