Open Studio Nightmare - Literally!

[Michele Rushworth]

On the subject of Maroger's, Virgil Elliot (our sometimes-resident SOG archival materials guru) has a lot to say. He has commented elsewhere on the forum that anything with natural resins (like the mastic in Maroger's) will darken considerably more than paintings completed with linseed, for example.

[Denise Hall]

I can always count on this cafe to give me the "pick me up at the end of a rough day in the classroom" I so desperately need.

I was under the strict impression that Marvin's comment about Maroger was totally in jest and not one bit sent as fodder for fightin' towards Michael. I also was under the same strict impression that Michael's comment back was a totally hilarious response making puns intended about Marvin's adept ability to back up most every opinion he has about painting, horseback riding and fencing, etc. etc. with facts upon more facts.

Then when I read Michael's latest response, I now think he misread Marvin's funny post entirely.

Well, at least that is my interpretation! Sounds like Beth and Sharon got the same message?

Lots of laughs,

[Michael Georges]

Michele:

Yes, I have heard Virgil talk about that.

However, it is my opinion that far too broad a brush is being applied here. There were certainly many paintings done from about the 1700s on where many different types of resins were used. There is a good deal of speculation and disagreement about if these resins are detectable in the paint layers or not.

Further, IMO, there are simply so many factors that come into play that it is a vast oversimplification to say that "all resins are bad."

For instance: What resin was used in a particular painting that is showing problems? What quality level were the ingredients and what was it mixed with? Was it used in the paint medium itself or just as a varnish layer over the top? Was it prepared properly? How was it used - too much? What happened to the painting after it was painted - did it spend the last 300 years in a temperate room or in a cold humid basement or a drafty castle? What kind of oil was used and what quality was it?

Reynolds appearently used anything and everything in his works in sloshy quantities and he is held up as the poster child of "what not to do." However, outside of Eastlake, where some documentation exists, what he used, in what quantity and how it was prepared and the quality of the ingredients are largely speculation. It is the same for all of the painters up to the late 1800s.

I have had several people try to tell me that Maroger's paintings have turned black or darkened and yet there is no one who can give me ANY evidence or documentation that this is actual fact. It is always "I heard that.."

There are a host of Maroger's original students out there using his mediums today who have done so for many decades. A number of noted painters use the medium with great success.

So anyway, it is kind of a personal bugaboo for me to debunk all this junk about Marogers in the face of phantom evidence and broad brush inuendo with no shread of real fact given to back it up.

I use it, I very much like it, I have read and will continue to read everything I can get my hands on about it.

I am probably being too serious about this, and I've mucked up my topic, so I will sign off now. Thanks for listening to my rant.

[Elizabeth Schott]

Michael is the Maroger's the mix of Black oil and double mastic that Studio Products sells? I don't think we would be led wrong on this.

I noticed something when I paid a visit to the Museum of Art in Indianapolis last weekend. I was really amazed at the difference in oils. There was Whistler

[Marvin Mattelson]

Two psychiatrists pass each other on the street. The first one says, "Good morning." The second, thinks to himself, "I wonder what he meant by that"

Michael, it was just a joke, as Denise accurately surmised. I think you may have overreacted a bit. Even if I seriously questioned the permanency of your medium, in no way was I impugning your work or you.

I'm no psychiatrist, myself, (I'm sure many might wonder if I am actively seeking the aid of one) but I think your reaction might be an indication that you yourself must harbor some doubts. The truth is, no one really knows about the long term effects of many mediums since they have not been around for all that long.

Scientific evidence, to date, has shown however that the vast majority of old master paintings contain no evidence of resins in the paint layers , and as Beth pointed out, they seem to be in better condition than much younger works. Let the buyer beware.

[Michael Georges]

Marvin:

Yes, I did overreact and I am sorry I vented at you. Do I have doubts about Marogers, yes I do. I also have doubts about alkyds and linseed oil. That is why I keep researching my materials.

I certainly need to back off of this and just paint and let the future worry about my works. If any of my paintings survive to be 100 or 200 years old then perhaps they will someday provide gainful employment for a conservator somewhere.

Beth and Sharon: Thanks for your good humor.

[Mari DeRuntz]

Perhaps a "nightmare" thread was invariably destined to darken....

Just as the Cafe Guerbois seems filled with artistic, temperamental absinthe-drinker-painter types....

As long as there was no NUDITY in your nightmare, Michael, I think you don't need to employ the services of a psychoanalyst.

Funny stuff, Marvin; I got a great kick out of your self-effacing comment on another thread, along the lines of "what do I know, I'm a realist." I love that stuff.

[Elizabeth Schott]

I thought it would be nice to illustrate the side topic this thread has taken.

This is a painting, I believe, is called the "Hatman", I am not sure who the artist is. This illustrates how the paintings turn yellow or darken over the years.

I am not sure if this is caused by the artist varnish or if they did in fact use a medium with their oil. Of course in the way old days, this might not have been the problem, since they mixed their own paint - maybe they just weren't good at this.

The "Hatman" before restoration.

[Marvin Mattelson]

Michael,

I'm assuming that my paintings will eventually wind up as fish wrapping. Anything up from there I view as a plus. There is a flea market I pass on Saturdays on my way to teaching. There is always a variety of original oil paintings hanging in the drizzle. It provides me with the proper perspective. And who says God doesn't have a sense of humor?

Mari,

I employ a team of cracker jack comedy writers to constantly freshen up my stand-up rout...I mean my teaching rhetoric with biting wit.

[Elizabeth Schott]

Now this is the "Hatman" after careful restoration and removal of the old varnish.

I think it is interesting how the "Black Hat" theme continues!