So you wanna be a pro? - Page 2

Karin Wells · 03-13-2002, 10:13 AM

I began to seriously draw with the Old Masters in 1994. I never painted a portrait or worked in oils before 1995. But by 1997, I had won first prize at an ASOPA competition for (my first) original oil portrait. So many people ask me "how I learned to paint" so quickly....I tell 'em, but they don't really hear me. So I keep repeating it...

If you SERIOUSLY wish to become a pro, I urge you to set yourself a course of study....copy (exactly) the Old Masters in all literalness, leaving nothing out and putting nothing in.

Primarily, drawing (and painting) is a CRAFT that must be mastered. Drawing (and painting) is all about light and its manipulation. Copying the "big boys" will help you build a vast store of well-organized and useful information at a much deeper level than "reading" or "talking" about it.

"Making things up" is a natural step that comes only AFTER you have mastered the tools of expression.

Luckily, Angels were the subject matter of much beautiful artwork during the Italian Renaissance. Please do not limit yourself to one paltry book...ever. AT THE VERY LEAST go to the public library and brouse through many books...or go online to a place that sells posters and purchase one by an Old Master that appeals to you. (I'll look up the URL for you if you need me to...let me know).

Do not expect that making a "serious copy" of an old masterwork to be a breeze. It could take many weeks (or months) of hard work to do one and thus learn what that particular work has to teach you.

I know that it is difficult to muster the self-discipline to study in isolation. The results always come more slowly than you wish...but they do come in direct proportion to the time and effort you are willing to put in.

It would be wonderful to be able to find a living teacher, but don't hold your breath...there is a shortage.

Susan Ballinger · 03-13-2002, 11:55 AM

Wow Karin! I had no idea that you had only started painting oil portraits in the last 7 years! I highly admire your work and I love the style that you use. I had always assumed that you had been doing this for a lot longer. I just decided last summer that I would like to try my hand at it and have been quite surprised by a talent I didn't think I had. I've always loved to draw, but only have dabbled in painting. I know it will take a lot of work, but I really enjoy it. So far my biggest obstacle is trying to pay for the supplies to build up a decent portfolio. (I'm currently supporting my husband and 9 month old daughter working full-time in retail.) I hope that I can find the time and money soon to try painting the Old Masters' paintings. I really want to succeed as I know that I will enjoy making a living at it and be able to stay at home with my husband (who is working on becoming an author) and my daughter (who is a great model for me- especially when she's asleep

).

I do take your comments to heart, because your paintings truely awe me and I hope to inspire such feelings in others someday. Have I gushed enough yet? LOL

Susan

Karin Wells · 03-13-2002, 12:36 PM

Susan, please be careful with toxic materials around your baby. Many oils and mediums can be lethal. Right now I am experimenting with the non-toxic Genesis paints (see other posts on this subject).

Meanwhile, good old charcoal, chalks, and pencils of all varities are cheap and available. Basically painting is just drawing with a brush. You will never waste your time by drawing...

Good luck and enjoy yourself!

Nathaniel Miller · 03-16-2002, 07:56 PM

Karin,

I appreciate your advice a lot and plan to take it. I have a year and a half until I finish my current studies, after which I plan to attend an atelier-style art school, and I've been looking for advice on how to best prepare myself in the interim.

So, here's the routine I've outlined for myself based on your advice and that of others whose advice I respect, and i wonder if you'd have any corrections or suggestions.....

I'm starting with drawing (I draw at a fair level, but nowhere near where I'd like to be)...

Copying each old master drawing 5 times, 2 exact tracings, and 3 exact (yeah, right) freehand drawings. I'll supplement this with drawing from life (my wife has agreed to pose for me....yipee free model!) probably one from-life drawing between the tracing and freehand copies for a break. I've done a coujple of copies already and it seems I learn more if I make several copies.

I'll also work/read through 2 figure drawing/anatomy books for a little while per day.

After I see marked improvement in my drawing, I'll start a similar regimen for painting practice (or should I start with painting right away?). I only wish I had more time to devote as I'm taking a full slate of classes and have a job as well.

Any comments or advice on improving this system are greatly appreciated.

Nathan

Karin Wells · 03-16-2002, 09:40 PM

I'd delay on the Oil Painting for now. If you are new at painting, it will eat a lot of your time and attention just to learn to handle the paint. If you eventually attend an atelier, I suggest that you wait on painting and simply learn whatever the method is that they teach you... It is much easier to learn something if you don't have to unlearn all of your bad habits first.

Considering your busy schedule, drawing sounds like your best bet for now.

I don't know how long it takes for you to do an Old Master copy, but it sounds like you are breaking the speed limit.

May I suggest that you trace the drawing....and transfer it onto a quality drawing paper. Then in careful freehand do whatever is necessary to make your copy look exactly like the original (duplicate the proportion of the image to the paper size, match the colors, duplicate shading, etc.)

This isn't THAT easy and you may find that once is enough.

Please post a copy of an original that you are working from along with your completed copy and ask for a critique.
When you draw from life, be sure to illuiminate the model with a single source of light.
What anatomy/figure drawing books are you using? Some are certainly better than others....
Meanwhile, carry a sketchbook with you and draw, draw, draw...anything and everything when you can take a breather.

Good luck!

Nathaniel Miller · 03-17-2002, 05:26 PM

Karin,

Another question I forgot to ask.....when you're talking about O. M. drawings, do you mean any one, or are you talking more about finished drawings? I've been indiscriminate thus far and have copied anything I liked. Some have been studies where it looks like composition, etc. weren't of too much concern.

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If you eventually attend an atelier, I would wait........learn whatever the method is that they teach you.....

I've done some looking and as far as drawing is concerned they pretty much all teach sight-size at first. I've given up on trying to reconstruct the method on my own as there is virtually nothing available on it, and like you said, I didn't want to develop bad habits. I'll certainly wait on the painting.

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don't know how long it takes for you to do an Old Master copy........May I suggest that you trace the drawing and transfer it onto a quality drawing paper. Then in careful freehand do whatever is necessary to make your copy look exactly like the original (duplicate the proportion of the image to the paper size, match the colors, duplicate shading, etc.)

Actually it takes me a long, long time to draw anything. I do find that the third copy goes much faster than the first one, though. It's a great idea to do the transfer....something I'd never thought of. All the copies I've done so far have been freehand, small (9x12 at most), and of simple drawings with the intent to reproduce the tones and shapes, but not to re-create the drawing line-for-line the way you suggest. That being the case, I'm not sure I should post anthing I've done so far, but will post the next one. Should I put it in the critique forum?

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What anatomy/figure drawing books are you using? Some are certainly better than others....

The two I'm using based on recommendations are Harold Speed's "The Practice and Science of Drawing", which is written in a style that I like and has been very informative so far, and G. B. Bridgman's "Complete Guide to Drawing from Life", which contains extensive information on anatomy, proportion, perspective, etc. and is all about the figure. I know nothing about the best way to learn this stuff, so I've just gone with the advice of people whose work I admire and/or have experience teaching.

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carry a sketchbook with you and draw, draw, draw...anything and everything

Will do!

Once again, thank you very much for taking the time to help me out.

Nathan

Steven Sweeney · 03-17-2002, 07:16 PM

Quote:

I've done some looking and as far as drawing is concerned they pretty much all teach sight-size at first. I've given up on trying to reconstruct the method on my own as there is virtually nothing available on it

Nathan,

The sight-size methodology is indeed in common use in teaching venues such as ateliers, where it provides at least a couple of advantages. If what the student is drawing is exactly the same size as what he or she is looking at (that is, as seen from where the student is standing), it is much easier to see whether the drawing is accurate, because you're able to quickly look back and forth between the subject and the easel and soon your eye becomes trained to see, primarily, the differences between the two, which then can be eliminated (which in turn, of course, leaves you with an accurate drawing). The other main advantage is that when the instructor critiques the drawing, he's got an "absolute" reference in front of him in nature, just as you do, and he's looking at and for the same qualities and measurements you are. (That is, for example, there's no quibbling about whether your "oversize" or "miniature" drawing is correctly proportioned to the subject's measurements.)

About the only book I've seen with some discussion and illustrations concerning sight-size work was written by a Richard Lack student, Kurt Anderson, "Realistic Oil Painting Techniques", which unfortunately is out of print, though a few used copies are available at Amazon and no doubt elsewhere (for reference, the original price was $28). With so many people craving just this kind of instruction, I'm surprised that the publisher, North Light Books, let this 1995 publication go out of print.

One hazard of the method becomes immediately apparent as soon as you're in a situation (such as a workshop) in which you can't place your easel where you need it in order to create the size drawing you want. Suddenly all the plumb lines have to be "in your head" instead of in front of your eyes (which actually is a good thing -- a great thing, and it's what you're working toward -- but if all your training has been otherwise, it can be disconcerting to have to make the quantum leap in a workshop hurry). Also, if you want to do near life-size renderings using sight-size methodology, the easel has to be sitting right next to the portrait subject, which can be rather awkward.

In any event, I'd be glad to write up a description of the sight-size set-up for you if you'd like. It would get rather lengthy, so I won't post it here for now. (A first for me!!)

Steven

Karin Wells · 03-17-2002, 10:38 PM

As far as O.M. drawings go, I'm suggesting that you choose any drawing that you like. But also choose according to that which you wish to learn (i.e., Ingres sensitivity of line, Michelangelo's anatomical renderings, Veronese's composition, Leonardo's halftones....whatever....).

Good composition is certainly an important component of great art and repeated exposure to it will help the principles sink into every fiber of your being. Being around great art (OM's) is sort of like having the good fortune to grow up listening to good classical music...you're bound to recognize and have a greater appreciation than one who has just been introduced....

Frankly, I never heard of the sight-size method until recently...I trained my eye and hand by copying. I doubt if you can develop a bad habit drawing anything and everything without learning the sight-size method first.

When I suggest that you copy, I do want you to reproduce the tones and shapes and not be a slave to re-creating the drawing line-for-line. I am suggesting that you trace for proper proportion, anatomy, etc.

If you post, I think that it should be in the Critique section, but be sure to say that it is meant to be a copy and also post the original. I don't know Harold Speed's book, but loved G. B. Bridgman's "Complete Guide to Drawing from Life".

Good luck!

Karin Wells · 03-17-2002, 10:57 PM

When someone is beginning to seriously undertake the study of drawing and painting, "originality" is not particularly emphasized during the learning of basic techniques.

Copies of Old Master paintings and drawings are therefore exercises, just as this had always been the general practice for apprentices in the painting studios of the past.

Nevertheless, I believe that it would be helpful for others to view the kind of study that is necessary to achieve the painting and drawing techniques which are meant to allow for unhampered self-expression later on.

After my last post, I fear that if Nathan posted a "copy" in the "Critique" section, he might get criticized for not being "original" by those who were clueless as to the powerful learning value of a copy...

Does anyone agree that a new section be created on this forum...."Copies" ("Learning Tools," "Basics," or somesuch) might make sense as a method of viewing/learning basic technique here?

Cynthia?????

Debra Norton · 03-17-2002, 11:19 PM

Steven Sweeney wrote:

Quote:

In any event, I'd be glad to write up a description of the sight-size set-up for you if you'd like. It would get rather lengthy, so I won't post it here for now. (A first for me!!)

Steven, I would be interested in that too, as I'm sure many others would be.

Debra