Does the background recede far enough?

[Enzie Shahmiri]

Thank you Tim for your recommendation. At this point I am on information overload and need to look at paintings, as Marvin suggested. I also need to do some experimenting before tackling the work itself. This painting was meant to be a challenge and a tool to learn new things and I am happy to report that it is accomplishing the objective. I will share the results as soon as possible.

Last week I have been busy repainting my studio and reorganizing my space. I am done now and can concentrate on the work at hand.

[Timothy C. Tyler]

We all should assign ourselves challenges that create growth! Good for you.

[Enzie Shahmiri]

Karin and Peggy would you please refer me to samples in your own work where you have used Ivory Black as a dark blue. I am in the midst of doing my color swatches based on the colors I have used in this painting and I am experimenting with the different suggestions offered. I have a problem with the Ivory Black. When I place the two colors next to each other and squint, I see the same value with the Ivory Black being slightly duller than the Prussian Blue. So if the value is the same why not keep the Prussian Blue? Please explain.

[Peggy Baumgaertner]

Enzie,

If the color is the same, (both ivory black and Prussian blue are both "blues"), and the values are the same, then the warmer color will proceed and the cooler color will recede. Ivory black in a cool blue, so it will recede, pushing the background back. If you use the Prussian blue, the intense chroma and warmth will make the background pull forward, the problem you are trying to fix.

If you are trying to demonstrate atmosphere behind the main figure of the model, you want the chroma of the background colors to be toned down. I don't use Prussian or phthalo blue on my palette, and did not recommend that you "wash back" your onions with those colors. I suggested that I usually recommend using burnt umber and ivory black or dioxazine purple to "wash back" a background. The burnt umber is a nice neutral, and the ivory black or purple will cool it down if it is too warm.

On to the question about ivory black as a blue, Karin has many more examples than I because she uses a limited palette, but I do have one of those famous "white ball" paintings I did in one of her workshops. The "blue" background behind the ball is created with ONLY ivory black and white. The "black" bottom portion of the painting was done with ONLY burnt umber. (Look how nicely the ivory black behaves itself and stays in the background.)

Peggy

[Enzie Shahmiri]

Peggy, I did the wash with the colors you had recommended and it seems to have toned it down considerably. I will post the infamous onions tomorrow.

Thank you so much for posting the picture. As I had mentioned before, I did color swatches of Prussian Blue and Ivory Black and held them next to each other to compare values. That

[Enzie Shahmiri]

I did the ball drawing and started to apply the paint and it

[Peggy Baumgaertner]

Enzie,

I'm going to run this over to Karin, I'll e-mail her and ask her to post. This was a grisaille painting, not a direct painting. As I recall, we did an underpainting with very flat paint in the stated colors, then multiple layers of glazes mixed with liquin. Because we were in a hurry, we used Griffin Alkyds. I paint directly, but still find that the Ivory black makes a very sedate blue. I use the Winsor Newton ivory black.


Peggy

[Enzie Shahmiri]

Thank you, Peggy. I was pretty sure I must have skipped something, so I looked up Karin

[Peggy Baumgaertner]

Enzie,

I'm starting a new portrait, so I took a little section in the upper right hand corner to repeat the "white ball" painting directly on white canvas, and it worked fine.

I used W/N ivory black for the blue, yellow ochre for the yellow, alizarin crimson for the red, and W/N burnt umber for the black bottom. The ivory black definitely looks blue, and the umber looks black.

Peggy

[Enzie Shahmiri]

Peggy, thanks for checking it out. Maybe I didn't get the same result because I used Winton Ivory Black. It's an inferior grade and a left over from my college days. I will try it again using Artist's grade.

I am looking forward to seeing your new work.