Pastels

[Matthew Severson]

After just recently discovering the great Daniel Greene, I've taken an interest in pastels.

How do pastel prices compare to oil paint? I have a hard time getting away from pencil/charcoal and into color mediums because of the price. I tend to work in only about 5 colors and apply extremely small amounts of paint to the canvas.

I'm hoping that pastels will help me work more freely.

Daniel Greene is offering pastel set at $79 (18 pastels) - $590 (144 pastels). Is this way too expensive for a beginner? I'm completely lost and would be extremely grateful for any help.

I'm also trying to get myself to spend $80 on one of his instruction videos. Why is everything so expensive?!

Matthew

[Mike McCarty]

Matthew,

My own experience is this: I know you can paint a convincing portrait with many vibrant tones and variations with only a handful of oil colors that cost less than $50 (stop being stingy with the paint, lay it out there like an angry old man spreading cream cheese in a deli). I hesitate to say definitively that you can't do that with pastels, but imagine that you've spent $3 times the number of planets in the universe, having done this you then look over this universe of color and find that the one you want is not there.

The Daniel Greene tape is worth the money. Try renting it, or go in with other students on the purchase. Also, after seeing the collection that D.G. draws from as he does his pastel work you will better understand what you're up against. Imagine your barn door off it's hinges, laid flat on it's side and covered with pastel sticks. It's an amazing site.

[Holly Snyder]

Hi Matthew,

I also looked into pastels a number of months ago. After gleaning everything on the forum, I realized that a simple 18 stick set would do nothing but frustrate me. The investment for a large set is indeed significant. I seem to remember that Daniel Green packages Unison's in his set, and if you're interested in those check out Jackson's Art Supplies . They're in London, but their prices (including shipping) are significantly cheaper for Unison's than any other place I've seen in the US.

The Daniel Green portrait videos are very popular, and I hesitate to recommend this, but you could also check your local library system. Then when you're making lots of money you could go back and buy one of his videos for another library, or student, that doesn't yet have one.

Holly

[Matthew Severson]

Sharon,

What brand of pastel is Daniel Greenes set?

You don't mind if I call you by your first name do you? This is a big step for me, after calling people sir,mr and mrs all my life.

Daniel Greene sells Unison pastels. Im sure they're top of the line, but simply too high quality for a beginner like myself.

Where can I find Great American Pastels, I don't see them on any of the sites.

Mike
Another first-name reference.
After what you said, I've taken an oath never to be stingy with my oils again. However, I tend to waste colors in anothor way, they dry up on my palette. To tell you the truth, I hate oils (the mess, the brushes etc..) but I love to use them.

Sharon

Daniel Greenes' book "Pastel" is out of print". I found the last copy at the Rhode Island School of Design bookstore three years ago. You may be able to find a used one if you google enough. That book is worth it.

Thanks, after you suggested it, I went onto my library's website and ordered it!
I have so little knowledge in art and ive never had a class in color mediums, so I have no idea what im doing, which is frustrating. Most books tell me nothing, but perhaps this one will.

Holly

I also looked into pastels a number of months ago. After gleaning everything on the forum, I realized that a simple 18 stick set would do nothing but frustrate me.

I imagine that 18 pastels would not go very far. The 70 pastel sets I see on the internet don't even seem to be enough.

Thanks all for your help!
Matthew

[Holly Snyder]

I have so little knowledge in art and ive never had a class in color mediums, so I have no idea what im doing, which is frustrating. Most books tell me nothing, but perhaps this one will.

Matthew,

Quite a number of people here are self-taught, including myself. The vast majority of what I've learned has come from books. People will recommend different books, but if you're interested in pastels, go to Amazon and type in "Chris Saper", or "Harley Brown", or "Ramon Kelley", or "Daniel Greene", or "Richard Schmid" (who mostly works in oils, but his Alla Prima book is wonderful) or check Cynthia's book site for a wealth of other books. The color theory in those books will of course apply to oils or any other medium as well.

[Mike McCarty]

Mike
Another first-name reference.
After what you said, I've taken an oath never to be stingy with my oils again. However, I tend to waste colors in anothor way, they dry up on my palette. To tell you the truth, I hate oils (the mess, the brushes etc..) but I love to use them.

Matthew,

First name is fine with me.

In my opinion there are at least two things that any artist needs to forget about, get over, resolve to give no weight. The first has to do with materials: give no thought at all to the quantity of materials consumed; the number of T-shirts stained, carpet ruined, walls needing to be repainted, the amount of paint left out of the tube and off the canvas. Resolve not to judge the mess you've made but the work you've created.

The next item is TIME. The amount of time it's taking to resolve design before starting, the time it's taking to resolve wip problems, the amount of time its taking to finish a work of art.

Leave these matters for others to fret about, and they will.

About color, I think that there are some people that intuitively "get" color, the way some people "hear" music. They can see color and replicate it and they can recognize color harmony. Others need to approach it in terms of formula the way a musician would "need" to read music. It helps if you can identify which you are as early as possible. Either I think can be successful, but trying to force yourself into the wrong pattern can be very frustrating. I know this well from my own experience.

Personally I think that correct values are more important than the exact color. You might try painting a portrait (or whatever) in oil with only the gray scale. First of all it's way easier than color, it will focus your attentions on value only, it will give you more courage to put sufficient paint on canvas, and you will be amazed at how satisfying the results will be.

[Linda Brandon]

Originally Posted by Mike McCarty

In my opinion there are at least two things that any artist needs to forget about, get over, resolve to give no weight. The first has to do with materials: give no thought at all to the quantity of materials consumed; the number of T-shirts stained, carpet ruined, walls needing to be repainted, the amount of paint left out of the tube and off the canvas. Resolve not to judge the mess you've made but the work you've created.

I agree with this excellent advice. Bill Whitaker told me that as an artist I would always be shelling out money and making messes, so it's best to get over it as soon as possible.

About saving oil paint: I pick up my blobs of paint off the palette at the end of the painting day and put them in a big Tupperware container and put them in the freezer. There are lots more tips about saving paint on the Forum if you do a search.

[Matthew Severson]

I just spent money! Contact the news stations!

I picked up a $49 set of pastels and some assorted paper. It all added up to about $80, but I'm proud of my new found freedom! Not to mention excited about this new medium. I even have a handful of people who are willing to pose for photographs or even sit for me. Including a pastor who wants to me to come over to his church to take photographs. Hopefully a church will offer some good lighting.

About saving oil paint: I pick up my blobs of paint off the palette at the end of the painting day and put them in a big Tupperware container and put them in the freezer. There are lots more tips about saving paint on the Forum if you do a search

Thanks, Ive never tried that. There is nothing more frustrating than having more paint dry on your palette than on the canvas!

Matthew

[Elizabeth Schott]

Matthew, I didn't read Sharon's pastels thread, but she is the pastel princess, so I always listen to her!

The Unison's are one of my favorite pastels, but for a beginner, they can be a bit more tricky for the shear fact they are wider than others.

The Rembrandt's are dull, but they are a good "cheaper" brand for two reasons;

1. They are massively distributed through Michaels etc. so easy to get.
2. In a cost effective way, they are available in both a Portrait or Landscape set.

I don't use them now, but will sometimes grab one for a massive background area when I don't want to use an expensive one.

Did you tell us what you ended up with?

Good luck, Beth

[Michele Rushworth]

You've taken the plunge and bought some pastels, but if you decide you want to learn to work in oils (without spending a lot of money) at some point in the future, here are a few suggestions:

Buy four tubes of paint: white, black, yellow ochre and Venetian red. You can paint magnificent portraits and most interior backgrounds with just those colors. Rubens did.

Put your paint in the freezer after every session, as Linda suggested. I can store the stuff for weeks that way before I ever have to scrape any of it off and put out fresh paint. (The exception is certain fast drying colors like Burnt Umber. Some of those will dry out in a couple of days somewhat even if they're in the freezer).

Really take advantage of your library and its online search catalog, as you've already started to do. I own one of Daniel Greene's videos and while it's good, I'd spend a couple of years intensively studying everything I could get for free before I'd spend the money buying a video. Check out a big fat art coffee table book from the library and spend a year (and lots of renewals) copying old master reproductions, or print a few from the web from some good museum art sites. You'll learn a ton that way, for free.

Or, as Mike suggested, become proficient in black and white before even moving to color. Traditional atelier art students are required to work only in pencil, charcoal and maybe move on to black and white paint for literally years before they are allowed to even touch color.

There is SO much to be learned without spending money on supplies.