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05-29-2008, 10:00 PM
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#1
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SOG Member FT Professional
Joined: Jun 2001
Location: Penngrove, CA
Posts: 122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michele Rushworth
Gamblin recommends oiling out with a mixture of 50% Galkyd Lite and 50% Odorless Mineral Spirits. How do you both feel about that, Virgil and Clayton?
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Michele,
My only reservation would be that if the paint were not sufficiently dry, the solvent could take some of it off. There's less risk if oil alone is used, with no solvent. I blot the excess oil off after oiling out if the paint is fairly freshly applied. Very little oil is needed to serve the purpose of oiling out.
Virgil
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02-11-2002, 07:07 AM
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#2
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Associate Member FT Pro/Open Dir. Editor
Joined: Jan 2002
Location: Arcadia (a suburb of Los Angeles), CA
Posts: 47
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Mr. Elliott!
Thank you for contributing your uniquely valuable expertise to our thread!
I know what you mean about Ralph Mayer (whom I obviously respect) -- he's perhaps the most quoted authority on painting in recent years; but we really do need another, more updated authoritative work -- I'm sure I speak for all of us in saying that we eagerly await your forthcoming book (Having written some handbooks and software, on other subjects, and having proofread and edited books and articles for other authors, I also know what you mean about an author's "prejudices"; but that's part of what adds to the "personality" of a work, for better or worse).
Since you are also a world-class expert (serving with the ASTM, no less), let me put one of my questions to you -- it is along the lines of your advice, and it also quotes from Mr. Mayer's book. Perhaps there is some common ground; there appears to be some historical precedent...
To my hypersensitive nose (which I seem to have inherited from both parents), even the alkyd mediums are somewhat irritating; and because turpentine is out of the question, I am trying to eliminate all resins from my painting, even though they seem to be standard ingredients in painting mediums since the 18th Century (and my methods of rendering the lifelike translucency of fleshtones requires mediums, in order to apply thin "velaturas" of translucent, not completely transparent, paint).
In an apparently new piece of literature from Gamblin, "Oil Painting Mediums", I read the following: "According to the scientists of the Rembrandt Research Project at the Rijksmuseum, Rembrandt did not use mediums that contain resin varnish. He used the oldest painting medium: a simple mixture of linseed oil and solvent."
Which I believe is like what you are recommending, Mr. Elliott (I believe the addition of solvent is to prevent wrinkling, a common problem with the addition of oil).
I have also just read an article by you, Mr. Elliott, in the website for the ASOPA...
http://www.asopa.com/publications/19.../rembrandt.htm
...in which you describe Rembrandt's medium: "The consistency of the paint was modified by the addition of a medium containing a long oil (sun-thickened linseed or walnut oil or boiled oil) and sometimes a resin, to give it a long brushing quality. Paint exposed to the air for several hours begins to take on this same characteristic, as the oil begins to polymerize."
Similarly, the Gamblin literature says: "In the style of Van Eyck, painters use high viscosity mediums (50% OIL to 50% SOLVENT) to create thin, illusionary surfaces with no brush marks. Linseed Stand Oil, the polymerized oil of the 19th century [I believe sun-thickened linseed oil served a similar purpose previously], mixed with solvent makes a similar high viscosity painting medium that is also slow drying." And previously the literature stated: "Slow drying painting mediums are useful for painters blending colors, such as portrait painters who need more time to blend flesh tones..."
Personally, I find that last point can go either way, given the number of "veils of color" that I must apply.
But still wanting an ingredient like a resin to enhance the "feel" of the medium (as the Gamblin and other literature puts it) and to "toughen" the resultant paint films (although the Gamblin literature also mentions the cracking dangers from natural resins, as you have alluded to), I remembered reading in The Artist's Handbook: "The mixture of linseed oils of various degrees of refinement is a procedure of considerable antiquity...A small amount of a linseed oil of ordinary consistency added to stand oil will impart a certain hardness, body, or solidity approaching that produced by a resin; some of the old effects which may be approximated by the use of Venice turpentine and oxidized oil may also be duplicated by the above mixture, particularly as regards manipulations and brush stroking."
So I am inclined to create a medium that incorporates the features of those mentioned above: Solvent (Odorless Mineral Spirits in this day and age), Stand Oil, and Linseed Oil (and because alkali-refined linseed oil has a reputation for oxidizing to greater hardness than cold-pressed, which I've found to yellow too much -- despite Mr. Mayer's favoring it -- I am now strongly leaning towards including alkali-refined linseed oil in this medium, hoping that the stand oil content will control any "suede effect", and also using paints with pigments ground in alkali-refined oil). Such a medium would have an odor very similar to the paint itself, which I actually find rather pleasant.
I have read further in other literature but have found no other references to the mixing of linseed oils of various states of polymerization (and could chemical analysis of the final, oxidized films of historical works even tell us what states of polymerization the original oils were in when applied? As Mr. Mayer continues in his book, he seems to indicate otherwise.).
If you could give us any guidance on this point, Mr. Elliott, (as to the historical precedent or proportions of linseed oils of various degrees of "refinement" or polymerization in successful mediums) I would be very appreciative. I know of no one who knows more on such subjects than you (or, equally respectfully, the other authority I am consulting).
Thanks again for all your helpful information!
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02-11-2002, 02:14 PM
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#3
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Associate Member FT Pro/Open Dir. Editor
Joined: Jan 2002
Location: Arcadia (a suburb of Los Angeles), CA
Posts: 47
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Please note that I have updated the above post as of 10 AM (Pacific Time), as with the inclusion of a link to an article by Mr. Elliott.
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02-11-2002, 04:18 PM
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#4
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SOG Member FT Professional
Joined: Jun 2001
Location: Penngrove, CA
Posts: 122
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Doug,
My Rembrandt article for ASOPA was written several years ago, and is probably incorrect on the point of resins in his medium, according to more recent discoveries made by conservation scientists at the National Gallery, in London. I have since updated that article, excerpted from my book, and the updated version can be seen on the Art Renewal Center web site, at:
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/2...rembrandt1.asp
That is the danger in committing technical information to print; it is subject to becoming obsolete when new information comes to light to supersede it. This is what has happened to Ralph Mayer's books, and those of all the other authors who wrote on the same subject before him. One must put forth a great deal of effort to stay abreast of the latest discoveries. It is not as simple as reading a book and trusting that everything it contains is the last word on the subject. Knowledge continues to advance.
I believe Mayer was right about mixtures of polymerized linseed oil and raw oil imparting resin-like qualities, and this may well have been done by Rembrandt. He also added ground glass and chalk to some of his paints for various reasons. See my updated article on ARC. I cannot give you the exact proportions, but I doubt they are critical. Too much polymerized oil will increase the gloss. Thus it is for each artist to discover what works best for his or her technique. While it is interesting to know what Rembrandt did and used, we must each paint our own pictures. Only Rembrandt was Rembrandt, and his unique genius was what enabled him to do what he did. The materials he used were incidental to that.
Velaturas can be done without resin ingredients in one's medium, simply by scrubbing the paint on very thinly with a stiff brush. Its consistency can be made more fluid by adding a drop or two of linseed or walnut oil to a pile of paint the size of a large coin, and mixing it in well with a palette knife, on the palette. Scrub a tiny bit of the oil onto the surface of the painting to be painted into beforehand, and wipe off as much of it as possible with a soft rag. The transparency/opacity of one's paints can also be controlled by choosing the pigments with an understanding of the natural degree of opacity or transparency of each. This is preferable, from a structural standpoint, to adding a lot of medium to the paint. Too much medium weakens the paint film. See my other posts for more on that.
One can easy waste much time in an anal-retentive obsession with sophisticated techniques, to the detriment of one's art by virtue of insufficient attention to the aesthetic aspects of art beyond painting technique. These are what should be seen as of paramount importance. The rest is just nuts and bolts.
Virgil Elliott
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02-11-2002, 05:40 PM
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#5
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Associate Member FT Pro/Open Dir. Editor
Joined: Jan 2002
Location: Arcadia (a suburb of Los Angeles), CA
Posts: 47
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Virgil,
You certainly live up to your reputation! I don't know of anyone else who could (or would) have answered my questions so thoroughly. I cannot thank you enough, other than to ask that I may somehow be notified when your book is available for purchase. An updated alternative to Mr. Mayer's work is long overdue!
I will worry only if knowledge should ever stop advancing.
The "conflicting" pieces of advice I've gotten before are now pieces of a puzzle almost all in place: I can finally see the picture, and I can now more easily paint in peace.
Thank you,
Doug
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02-19-2002, 02:50 AM
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#6
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Associate Member FT Pro/Open Dir. Editor
Joined: Jan 2002
Location: Arcadia (a suburb of Los Angeles), CA
Posts: 47
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From Mr. Gamblin, and more
The other world-class expert I posed my questions to was Mr. Robert Gamblin, President of Gamblin Artists Colors Co. and
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03-09-2002, 06:07 AM
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#7
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Associate Member FT Pro/Open Dir. Editor
Joined: Jan 2002
Location: Arcadia (a suburb of Los Angeles), CA
Posts: 47
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A Working Solution
After receiving so much useful advice, I put it into practice and have eliminated virtually all noxious odors from my studio.
By the easel I have two inexpensive 5-oz. glass bottles with ground-glass stoppers (from Cost-Plus Imports) -- much easier to get in and out of than screw-top jars (an old trick from chem lab) -- in one bottle is baby oil; in the other, Gamsol: While in the "passionate throes" of painting, I can quickly wipe my brush on a paper towel, dip it in Gamsol, and then wipe it again to change colors (and if some of the previous color remains to blend with the next, that usually adds to the "integrity" of the composition). When I have more time, I will wipe my brush, dip it in the baby oil, and then into a series of three jars: The first a Silicoil jar (I bought it previously; I might as well use it now), with a strong solution of shampoo; the next, a mayonnaise jar, with a weak solution of shampoo; and the last, another mayo jar, with just water. It usually takes two go-arounds to thoroughly clean my brush (in the bottom of each jar or bottle, except the Silicoil jar, I have placed a disk I've cut out of a Scotch-Brite
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03-18-2003, 11:20 PM
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#8
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Juried Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 11
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Soy based thinner
I just read all the threads on the this subject and was wondering if you have heard about Soy Solve? I just received a free sample from the company and it is supposedly safer than all the substitutes that have been discussed here. I am trying it now and not sure how I feel about it yet. I would love to know if you have already gone down this road.
http://www.soysolv.com
You have all scared me to death of the Natural Turpenoid I have been using for 7 years.
Thanks for all research you have put into this.
Morgan
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03-19-2003, 12:17 AM
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#9
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CAFE & BUSINESS MODERATOR SOG Member FT Professional
Joined: Jul 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,460
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I'm no expert but I've always heard that artists shouldn't use industrial grade materials because of the impurities they contain that could cause unpredictable results when used in painting. Who knows what color this stuff will turn in a few years? I checked out the website and I didn't see what was in soysolv, other than soybeans. I know what's in my 100% mineral spirits.
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03-10-2008, 08:33 PM
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#10
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Juried Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Blackfoot Id
Posts: 431
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Although this thread hasn't been re-visited in five years, confusion and mis-information on the subject of solvents persists. Perhaps some of this information is new since '03?
1. "Turpentine" by definition, is the gum exude extracted from living trees. This includes gum turpentine extracted from Georgia pines, {used in naval stores since pre-colonial times) as well as gum extracted from the European larch, known as "Venice Turpentine" (used in oil painting since Renaissance times) and also Canada Balsam, widely used in the lab to prepare microscope slides, and also of use in certain oil-painting mediums.
2. "Spirits of Turpentine" refers to the clear, water-thin distillate that is collected when turpentine is heated, and is what's commonly known as "turpentine". The solids left behind are rosin (upon which violinists depend), tar, and colophony. A certain amount of these resins and solids is retained in the spirit distillate, and the finest grades of "pure spirits of gum turpentine" are processed three times: hence, "triple distilled".
With the phasing out of linseed oil and natural resins in the paint and coatings industry for commercial and utility purposes, production of top quality pure spirits of gum turpentine has been in decline for sometime, and has been largely replaced by "turpentine" products which are the camp-followers of deforestation in third-world countries. What is commonly available in hardware and paint stores nowadays is a vile liquid, reeking of creosote, which is steam-distilled from slash, stumps, limbs, and other forest wastes. It bears no resemblance to "good" turpentine (what we should be using at the easel) which smells like pine forests after rain.
Pure spirits of gum turpentine is a necessary component to "cut" natural resins for varnishes. Mineral spirits will not effectively dissolve some, while others, such as damar, yield a cloudy, turbid mixture if dissolved in mineral spirits.
The chemistry of pure spirits of gum turpentine is conducive to the drying of oil paint films by introducing oxygen, allowing paint to dry "through" rather than on the surface.
A petroleum distillate, mineral spirits, odorless mineral spirits, and the array of "branded" trade name solvents such as "Grumtine", "Gamsol", "Turpenoid", etc., etc. are all mineral spirits, derived from kerosene, and further refined. As a solvent for cleaning brushes and tools, K-1 kerosene is no more odorous than "regular" mineral spirits, but is more penetrating, and hence a better cleaner. It has a lower vapor pressure than mineral spirits, which means lower emission of hydrocarbons.
"Natural Orange" type solvents contain the oily terpenes extracted from citrus peel waste. Compared to either mineral spirits or pure spirits of gum turpentine, they are extremely active, harsh, volatile, and deleterious to the polymerization of paint films. They can easily remove dry oil paint, and while the citrus odor may be appealing, in a confined space, the volatile hydrocarbons they emit are no safer than those released by either turpentine or mineral spirits. The "cutting", solvent action of these solvents is so extreme, they should not be mixed into oil paints, or any mediums used with them.
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