Difficult Clients?

Leslie Ficcaglia · 05-27-2008, 09:32 PM

The painting is now in the Works in Progress section. Unfortunately the images don't show the sharpness of the actual painting, but they'll do to give viewers an idea. Thanks again!

Leslie

Debra Jones · 05-28-2008, 12:56 AM

Leslie, Leslie, Leslie!
I think the first lesson I ever had was that I have no idea what the client looks like. The old "are you going to believe me or your lying eyes!!!"

The client was young and beautiful (I really don't do beautiful as well as interesting) and was a good friend. I argued that it was perfect. I fixed and amended and did not want to lose her as a friend or the commission so I actually did another. She posed sitting on the bed, facing the wall. It was a really lovely figurative and she was thrilled! It was a gift for her husband. Yes, they are divorced.

Then my own mother thought my painting was "too detailed" which of course meant wrinkles. I repainted and smoothed and kept my favorite picture of her.... after all, I gave her most of those lines!

I digitize the heck out of all my reference. I don't even accept the job until they can SEE what I am trying to put on canvas. They get blurred and dodged and tweaked and compressed and when they can see themselves in the photo.... I get a deposit. I am in the middle of a painting that has been coming together for about 8 months in the digitizing, photo referencing stage. Two years ago I did three dogs and five humans. Three great kids, dad, the dogs - all were perfect, but I redid mom right down to the wire. We even printed a Christmas card from the third to last version.

I believe that the ONE thing we can do as artists is improve upon nature. Well, with all the recent discussions, lets say improve upon photography! My own observation has been that when I look in the mirror and when I take a photo of myself, I swear, they are not the same person. That is ME, a person who spends hours in the day LOOKING at people. We have to give a large amount of room to the client. I just try my best to back out of my own head and move into theirs.

Perhaps the next step is to digitize the painting so you can figure out what would please them. Costs much less in painting and drying and scraping.

NOW over to see what this is all about.

Yes, this is hitting a nerve at present, but I do believe I am a happier camper with few, but happier clients when I put myself in this mind set!

Leslie Ficcaglia · 05-28-2008, 07:54 AM

Debra, Debra, Debra! Nice to be "talking" to you again! To be honest, though, if I had to go through all of that before painting a picture I'd give up and go till my garden instead! I think each of us has to find a process that pleases us and also satisfies clients - and truly, mine normally does both. I can see that I would benefit from more visits to this forum, though; working in isolation you can lose some of your sharpness and your ability to judge what you produce.

Anyway, if the client could articulate what she wanted changed I'd be happy to try; so far she hasn't been able to do that! Hopefully if I can make the modifications that Alexandra has suggested, and any others that seem helpful, that will make a difference. But I'm definitely going to get deposits from now on.

I saw your silverpoint self-portrait, by the way, and liked it, but I still adore your oils.

Leslie

Michele Rushworth · 05-28-2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Anyway, if the client could articulate what she wanted changed I'd be happy to try; so far she hasn't been able to do that!

That's a very common problem.

Alexandra Tyng · 05-28-2008, 10:42 AM

It's my belief that it is not really the client's job to tell you how to fix a portrait. It's the artist's responsibility! The client can say "It's not quite me...something abut the eyes..." or "my mouth is off," etc. but just following the client's directive and "fixing" the eyes, mouth, etc., is not going to solve the problem. It's our responsibility as artists to figure out what's really going on. Usually the problem is more widespread and involves proportions outside the realm of that one feature they are complaining about. If we have to repaint the whole head, so be it. I ask clients to tell me their reaction, and then let me try to figure out what changes need to be made.

Michele Rushworth · 05-28-2008, 11:54 AM

Alex is right. Clients are not trained to see proportion problems or angle problems, they just know something isn't right. And quite often if the problem seems to be a particular feature (often the mouth!) the real problem sometimes ends up being everything that's around the mouth but not the mouth itself.

Leslie Ficcaglia · 05-28-2008, 12:21 PM

That's true, but she wasn't even telling me whether it was the face or the body that bothered her - although I assumed it was the face, since it usually is. It helps if I have a general idea of where the client thinks it's off-kilter. Of course once you fix the mouth the naso-labial folds will need correction, and so forth, but personally I need a starting point at least. And as you said, Michele, sometimes they think it's the mouth, but it's actually the contours around it, or the jawline. That's our job to figure out once we've been alerted to a problem. But sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees after I've been focussing on something for awhile.

I've been working on the painting this morning and will try to have something to post today or tomorrow so I can see whether I'm on the right track.

Thanks again.

Leslie

Tom Edgerton · 06-02-2008, 08:31 AM

All of these are good suggestions....

First, always show a color study of the entire painting, and have them sign it as approval for you to go to the final painting. The major compositional changes are avoided by doing so. Then, get a deposit--most artists charge anywhere from 30 to 50 percent--so that you don't have to dicker over "what's fair" in the unfortunate instance that the painting is refused. As the artist, you're the one that determines what's fair. If you state the deposit amount and policy on your website, somewhere in your portfolio, and on your contract, there shouldn't be a lot of argument around it, as the client already has been informed about the deposit and has agreed to it.

In the not-uncommon situation you're in now, where you're trying to determine the source of the client's discomfort, having the client in and looking at the painting together is a good place to start. As already suggested, ask a series of non-threatening questions to try to both eliminate the areas that she's not worried about, and to identify the areas that do concern her. I sometimes ask the client to just point to areas that "just don't look quite right," and ask them to describe how the painting seems off, or doesn't feel right, and generally what feels wrong about it. I never ask them what specifically to do or change, as Alex rightly points out, as the solution is often different from what they think should be done. For instance, an eye that doesn't look right may actually be improved by working an area next to it. Then bend over backwards to try and accommodate them, as long as you don't compromise the quality and integrity of the work. You may have them sit at that time to observe the problem areas from life. Checking the areas of concern against the client is often a lot more illuminating than checking them back against the photo.

If you have to work from photos, finishing from life is always preferable.

Good luck....you'll get it right.