Sandy--need some input

[David Draime]

Hi Lisa! Great to see you posting again. First of all, big CONGRATULATIONS on this important commission (I'm assuming it's a commission - that you are getting paid for these ten...). The exposure with this type of group will be tremendous and I'm sure you'll soon be swimming in commissions.

And what a beautiful rendering. You have such a great command of this medium. As for your questions, I can only offer my thoughts on some of them. The more business-oriented considerations can, I'm sure, be tackled by others in a far more satisfactory way. I am so not the business person.

To follow up on what Terri has said...In my way of thinking there are basically two ways of doing a vignette: Fading the shoulders out as you have, where everything is rendered to a finished degree and then faded out in a very controlled way - similar to what is done mechanically in photography. The other way is more related to process - the earlier, looser stages of drawing are left for all to see, except where the center of interest - the face - is more or highly rendered, finished. Now, in my own work as you have seen, any vignettes were done in the former, the "foggy fade-out" manner. Others may have a different opinion on this - and maybe it is purely subjective - but I've come to the conclusion/opinion that this way of creating a vignette is artificial looking, and maybe even, dare I say, a little disingenuous. I say this because I found that in my own work, I was aspiring to the look of the latter way of working, but didn't set up the drawing, pastel that way (I was extemely controlled, not taking any chances) from the get go - because I didn't have the experience, the "chops" to pull it off successfully - that's why I used the word "disingenuous" - because I now see the former way as always aspiring to the look of the latter. Everything in my work up until now has been so in control, it hasn't allowed for the more spontaneous, searching, honest lines and marks that characterize - what I now feel - is what real drawing is all about. And it is so much more of a dynamic approach. Look at some of Daniel Greene's pastels. This is what I mean. You see his process in his vignettes, and it is such a delight to behold. They are so alive! Last year at the portrait conference in Wash. DC I had my portfolio critiqued by one of the previous top award winners whose work I admire greatly, and this was her critique of Diana - I had already thought this was a big problem with the pastel, I totally agreed with her - so I have since drawn it out to the borders, and I think it looks much better.

Now you ask if this look will fit your style - I think it is more a question of process. How do you begin these pieces? The lines that Terri is referring to, I think, are - or should be - the beginning stages of drawing that show through, that remain unresolved. I'm not sure you can fake this, or have this be an afterthought to achieve a certain "look." I have yet to really explore this way of working - but I know it will take a lot of practice - to do it in an honest way. Sorry if this is long-winded - I just had to get that off my chest.

And Terri is also right - if scale of the heads and size is similar - variety of color and background will create more interest. Your style wil tie them together.

Can't wait to see all these. Man, if I had only six weeks to do all that I'd be panicking right now. But the way you work - you'll probably have these done in six days!

[Lisa Ober]

DAVID! Hello! I sure would like to see what you are working on now. I would be crying to be sure.

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. Everything you said I agree with and struggle with myself. It's so funny what draws me (pun intended) as excellent work. I can't help but be imressed on one hand with duplicates of photos that show great technical skill. On the other hand I see work like Morgan Weistling's and dream about it. HOW TO MARRY THE TWO?

Lordy, where do I start? I totally understand what you are saying about the vignette and the retention of the artist's hand in the painting. I do start with a very sketchy (technical term beginning but I end up covering all my sketch work by the end of the piece. There are lots of reasons for that, some of which are personal faults. I know the other reasons are going to sound like excuses but bear with me for a minute or two.

I actually used to turn out pieces that were "freer" but someone would inevitably say I should "finish" it. Mind you, I am not creating museum pieces (sadly). I am in business to make a living doing what I love. I have always struggled with how far I should take a pastel and I often overwork them (okay, almost always most artists would say) I am aware that a more creative expression would be more artistically moving. Unfortunately, I find the overworked pastels impress my clients more and I want work. I am not saying that I don't sometimes get lucky and get a client that would fall over like I do when seeing Daniel Greene's work but it is rare. I can either get a new batch of clients (not so easy at this point) or provide the service they want. I'm sort of typing as I think about this...I suppose there is a bit of a trade off in play so I can stay busy..which I am, thankfully. Maybe I just haven't figured out the perfect marriage between faith to the work and faith to the clients.

As for working with my natural tendencies and inclinations then (which are to overwork), perhaps I SHOULD consider finishing these 10 pieces to the edge. Is that what you mean? I like that idea.

Let me add one more thing. For something like this and for the bulk of my work I must use photo references. You wouldn't believe the difference in my work when I work from life. It's like a different person. I just don't get the opportunity very often but it is shocking how freeing it is to work from life. You move away from the technical tendencies so much more easily. But alas, vocation calls. When I am rolling in dollar bills (or hundred dollar bills) I will work from life much more.

As side note, my nickname in art school was "the renderer" which just about says it all. It's pathetic but true for the most part. I work that way because I am personally impressed with good technical skill. You certianly have that yourself. In fact, you are somehow able to go further with your work than I have been able to thus far. You convey mood. I lack that I think.

I think you can sum it up by saying I paint pictures of people while some people create works of art. Oh, but the story doesn't end there. One day, probably not on the portraits of these 10 women---but someday, I will paint a work of art thanks to folks like you pushing me to improve. Lord help me, I hope I do that.

Gee, this should have been a journal entry and not a public post.

Thanks for the thought provoking response. I will ponder what has been said.

[Julie Deane]

"I just haven't figured out the perfect marriage between faith to the work and faith to the clients."

Boy can I relate to that, Lisa! I'm having a tough time learning how to do just that. And what else you said, about other people creating works of art while.....and I'll speak for myself.....I create pictures of people. That's exactly how I feel right now.

But your work is beautiful - I don't think you'll have any problems with that, if you do now, for long! I like your sample here. However, to flatter your sitter more would probably be appreciated, as has already been suggested.

I'll look forward to seeing more of this series as you post them - you will, won't you?

[Lisa Ober]

Hi Julie!

Great to hear from you. I hate to admit it but it's also nice to hear from someone who feels like I do. I figure if you feel that way then I am in really good company. "I feel your pain" or more appropriately you feel my pain.

The woman whose portrait is in the sample is definitely attractive but I assure you I flattered. I can't say her age but she is older than she looks in the portrait I promise. I will be changing the mouth and will repost that in the next few days.

I will certainly post the portraits either as I complete them or all at one time and I appreciate your expressed interest and encouragement.

[David Draime]

Lisa, I read with great interest all you wrote. I can relate so much to what you are saying.

Originally Posted by Lisa Ober

I can't help but be impressed on one hand with duplicates of photos that show great technical skill. On the other hand I see work like Morgan Weistling's and dream about it. HOW TO MARRY THE TWO?

Speaking of which, you did ask me to marry you! Well.... I'm ready!! Where have you been?!

Originally Posted by Lisa Ober

I actually used to turn out pieces that were "freer" but someone would inevitably say I should "finish" it... I have always struggled with how far I should take a pastel and I often overwork them (okay, almost always most artists would say) I am aware that a more creative expression would be more artistically moving. Unfortunately, I find the overworked pastels impress my clients more and I want work.

I wouldn't describe your work as "overworked"...I know what you mean but I think you might be setting up a false choice for yourself: "overworked" vs "freer" painting. It's a familiar one for me because I have labored under it (this false dichotomy) for some time now, always feeling that the goal was to paint more freely or more expressionistically. Is Bouguereau's portrait of Gabrielle Cot overworked? It's anything but loose, and in my opinion it is one of the greatest masterpieces of all time. I'd give anything to have my work look like Bouguereau's. Or Rembrandt's. Or a number of other artists. My God. What a gift that would be! But what's their secret? I don't think it has anything to do with whether they are painting in a more loose or more controlled way. I think that's beside the point.

I'm not sure, but I think, first of all, it has something to do with vision. How much do you really percieve of your subject...in terms of subtlety of value, color, chroma? I mean really percieve. And the expression of the subject, the glance, the look - what are the subtleties contained in a human expression! They're infinite. I think what separates the Great Ones from the rest of us is not so much that they are doing anything differently - stylistically or technically; I think they see more. They notice more. And they do whatever it takes to make those little dabs of paint convey what they see.

Originally Posted by Lisa Ober

As for working with my natural tendencies and inclinations then (which are to overwork), perhaps I SHOULD consider finishing these 10 pieces to the edge. Is that what you mean? I like that idea.....

I really wasn't making a suggestion as to how to finish these pieces. You're on a pretty serious deadline; If you're going to do them as vignettes, then I think the "Daniel Green" approach is best. But that would mean a very different approach from the way you normally work and to do it with confidence....I'm certain I couldn't change gears so quickly. That being said - if they were mine to do, I'd finish them to the edge - because I really have a problem with the "foggy fadeout"...

Originally Posted by Lisa Ober

As side note, my nickname in art school was "the renderer" which just about says it all. It's pathetic but true for the most part. I work that way because I am personally impressed with good technical skill.

The Renderer! Ha! That's great. Lisa, it's not pathetic. You have an incredible gift. There are thousands of artists who would give all their teeth to be able to render like you do. You've got to appreciate what you've got. You've got to get in touch with your inner renderer and give her a big hug! ...and say "There there...those nasty art school students made fun of you. They said you weren't cool. They made you feel like a dork. But they were just jealous..." Lisa, it's time to show the world that you are, indeed... The Renderer. And you should be impressed with good technical skill. It's essential.

So then the question is: How do I get better? Here's where, perhaps, doing some pieces in a looser, less controlled fashion might make sense. Not as a stylistic goal necessarily - and certainly not for any commissions - but only to experiment. To find out what paint (or pastels) can really do. I really believe that there are hidden virtues locked up within every medium - things that only that medium can do, ways in which it can be applied, to turn a form, or capture a highlight. If we always play it safe, sticking with the tried and true, never taking any chances, we may never discover these hidden treasures - and what's the most we would lose? A few bucks of paint and a canvas.

Lisa, it's so great seeing your work. It really is inspiring. You've inspired me.

[Michele Rushworth]

Here are some answers to your questions:

1. Is the portrait below a good template for how much of the shoulders to show? I would like the focus to be on the face but I don't want to put too little in the painting. Would you do a vignette or run off the board with the body?

Personally I rarely find a portrait in which I think the vignette look is done well. I prefer to continue the image to the edges of the canvas. Just my opinion.

2. Do I make each portrait unique in background and tailored in coloring to the individual to make them a little more exciting to view?

Either way would be fine.

3. Would it be better to make each background neutral rather than something like I have in the one posted here?

Whatever you think would look best.

4. How do I take careful advantage of the opportunity with regard to PR? Business cards on the front of the displayed portraits? The back? I will receive mention in the program which will be nice.

Okay, here's where I've got some experience. Write a press release. You can easily read about how to do that on the web. Search online and find about 20 or so people to email it to. Find exact names and titles of the right people. For example, the Editor of the newspaper Lifestyles section, the columnist who is always featured in the Women's section, etc. The Editor of the weekly suburban newspaper that covers your neighborhood, etc. The producer of the local TV evening newsmagazine/features show. Email the press release a week before the event. Take pictures of yourself working on one of the portraits to send along with the press release. After the event send out a revised press release (with quotes from the recipients, yourself and the sponsors, for example) to the same 20 people.

I don't know if they'd let you put business cards on the portraits themselves. Not sure that's a good idea anyway. Be sure your business card is on the back though, so each recipient can contact you for future work, if they want to.

5. Should I show the recipients the portraits before they are publicly displayed to make sure they like them?

Absolutely.

Good luck!

[Ilaria Rosselli Del Turco]

Lisa, you had a lot of very good and well expressed advice here. My little opinion is that those loose lines David has described so well, if you decide to put them in, should really be lines, I mean straight lines, that give solidity to the figure like a pedestal.
This is so difficult that I think you will in the end decide to continue the drawing to the edge. As it is there is some difference between the confident way with which you have handled the head and the more hesitant work on the shoulders.
Life/photo work: you are in good company! It is very hard for me to admit that my life work is not technically as good some times as the one from photos, but much, much more interesting!
Best of luck
PS I would also lightly soften her irises, they are very lively but I find them a bit sharp.

[Alexandra Tyng]

Hi Lisa, it's nice to see you posting again!

I'm not sure you want any more advice, since everything has been covered so well, but here's my two cents.

First, about the "rendering" problem: I had (have?) a rendering problem, too. This sounds very familiar to me. Not that our styles are the same, it's just that I started out drawing every little detail. I was fascinated by detail. My high school art teacher and the artists I knew would tell me, "you don't have to draw every wrinkle," and I would think, "Why not?" I couldn't see at that age why it might be better not to. I didn't start to turn this problem into an asset until I realized what it really meant to choose and to make decisions artistically. Then I saw what a long road lay ahead of me and how much I had to learn.

Sorry, I didn't mean to tell you my life story. I know you are already a long way up that road already, or you wouldn't be turning out such beautiful work (and, yes, Lisa, there have been some transcendent pieces, I'm sure you know which ones they are, and you will do more!) I'm hearing that you are aware of an issue that is, in itself, both a great talent and a handicap.

If we look at the work of the artists we admire, there are certain ones whose work makes us think "I wish I could paint like that!" Not like wishing we were someone else, but wishing we were more developed versions of ourselves. In other words, our goals have to be consistent with our own styles and our own directions somehow.

So it's all about loving and appreciating your ability to render, and at the same time asking yourself what you want to do with it, what decisions are you going to make for your long-term artistic growth, given this ability. Whenever I reach a point of frustration I look at paintings I admire as something to work towards, and I try to paint from life or switch from portraits to landscapes, or draw. It helps not to perseverate, because then you just get into a rut.

Now, back to the portrait. I know you've shaved a few years off her appearance already, but my eye is drawn to the wrinkles above her upper lip and on our right side of her mouth (smile lines). The important thing to do is think how you can simplify these areas without taking away her essential characteristics. She will thank you for it, believe me. You may need two major smile lines rather than three or four. You may be able to eliminate the puckers above her lip completely.

The background: I think Michele's advice is great. I'm just reacting to this particular portrait. To me the color of the background competes with her skin, so I would vote for a darker, more neutral tone.

The fading at the bottom: I agree that if you can't loosen up towards the bottom, then render. The misty fade tells me you are not in control unless you are tight. The fully finished edge will tell me you have made a decision that you are in control of.

Gosh, that was much more than two cents!

Alex

[Jean Kelly]

Hi Lisa,

Just wanted to say congrats on this commission, I'm sure you will be able to carry it off in a beautiful way.

I'm also reading this thread with much interest, there is a lot of wisdom here.

Jean