Ethics and art

[Kimberly Dow]

Someone brought it to my attention yesterday that there could be an ethical dilemma with entering competitions after posting work on forums for critiques

[Michele Rushworth]

It's not dishonorable or unethical. It's no different than Monet and his buddies sitting around in the real Cafe Guerbois talking with Renoir about his latest painting. Don't worry about it.

If your brother-in-law had a good eye and suggested something about a painting that you later implemented, would that mean you could never enter it into a competition? No. If a movie director got some good suggestions from his wife does that means he has to give back his Oscar? Not at all.

[Allan Rahbek]

Kim,

I think it

[Kimberly Dow]

Michele & Allen -

When I first heard this - I was in complete agreement with you. I was very hot under the collar to defend myself. But, the point that made me really chew on this last night was that it doesn't matter in a competition how I know it's my work, it is how the judges view it. I agree that artists talk all the time and a personal email about a painting wouldn't be out of bounds, but these forums are public. Right now all competition forms state that the work entered cannot be done under supervision or in a workshop. I suspect that if these forums keep multiplying they may eventually include a statement prohibiting this as well for entries.

There are extremes for every example - and taking this to an extreme - say a poster here painted a portrait and got loads of help from everyone. Really brought the painting to a finish he/she could not have done otherwise and maybe couldn't again on his/her own. Then this painting went on to win a major competition. Wouldn't that cause some questions to arise?

[Allan Rahbek]

And none of those stone throwing colleagues did ever show their paintings to a friend or professor before deciding to join the show, or ???

Well of course not !

Allan

PS.
I believe for myself that I can see on a painting if the brush was "hold " by another. That be tracing from a photo or literally painted by another hand. Both are disgusting and should be noticed by the jury.

[Kimberly Dow]

Allan,

I think the point that I am taking and digesting is that there wouldn't be an ethical problem with asking or receiving a friends/collegues/past professor's critique or opinion on a piece and possibly making changes. It's the 'publicness' of the forums where anyone can read that changes the rules. It could bring in people who say - "hey, it was your idea, but you changed 15 things about it because of 5 people's input."

I am not saying I agree it's right, I am saying I don't want to be accused of being wrong. Just trying to be safe instead of sorry. To me I look at it the same way I might a copyright issue - if I am not sure how others would see it - I best not do it.

[John Crowther]

This, alas, isn't so much an ethical dilemma as a situation that can conceiveably bring you in conflict with contest rules. We discussed this at length within the past year on another art forum, and a lot of people concluded that they could no longer post work for critique if they had any expectation of eventual entry in a contest. You're right, Kimberly, about competition rules against work done in a workshop or under supervision, and the conclusion of most people was that although "supervision" isn't explicitly defined, exposure to critique in a public forum in which many teachers and experts participate can easily be construed as "supervised," comments are solicited, suggestions made, and work is altered. Mind you, I'm not happy with it either, but we have to live with it.

John C.

[Michele Rushworth]

I suppose the only way to resolve this would be to ask the organizers of three or four of the bigger competitions and see what they think.

[Allan Rahbek]

I see the point.

That means, in fact, that if you are going to join a competition you can

[Kimberly Dow]

Allan -

I don't see that. If you are unveiling a work it is assumed you are done. It is understood that artists get comments all the time - good and bad, but with a critique on a forum you are posting for help and comments to improve your painting.