Snobs?

[Mary Sparrow]

Reading the responses to Kim's question about bare chested boys reminds me of something said to me once. But first I want to confess to being an arist that can do much better than I actually do.

I was told not to pursue art as a child because it would get me nowhere. I was coaxed into going to UNC-CH because it was my father's Alma Mater and I was expected to go rather than go to its rival ECU where the art school was.

The fact that I have ended up a portrait painter that is paid a decent amount for the time involved pleases me because I proved my parents wrong. However, I had zero training other than what I could absorb from art books. That is why I read every word posted in this forum and tuck it away in that part of my brain that is waiting for the extra time to actually put it to use.

I also confess that in the past I have accepted, more often than not someone else's less than perfect resource material because my bills have to be paid. NEVER EVER once has has a client of mine walked away unhappy, more often than not when the mother sees her child (I only do children) she cries...this, to me, means I do SOMETHING right.

But technically I am challenged, I never realized how challenged I was until I came here. You Pros here scare the heck out of me. Like Kim, I want to call my mom and get her to tell me, yes dear, you are great. (But that doesn't happen very often, she hates to be proven wrong.) I admire you people that have the nerve to muster to go to one of Marvin's workshops, or any other wonderful painter.

I got the nerve once to go study with an artist I admired. Oddly enough it was arranged by my mother. I will leave him nameless, though I have a feeling a few here will figure it out. It was an enlightening experience. I don't know what I was expecting, but I did see that I wasn't that far off the mark in the way I did things which made feel a little better. He was an older man with lots of stories to tell in between brushstrokes. But the one thing that stuck in my head when I expressed my fears of working with and showing my work to others like him was this comment.

He stated "PULEEZ, one thing you need to know is that portrait artists are the biggest group of SNOBS on the planet, I have been one and worked along side some the greatest you will ever meet. Be careful reading forums like that. Learn to decipher what is the actual meat and what is smoke up your @&#!"

Oh, this conversation flowed out of him with tales all afternoon. I think in part he was smacking some in the face and in part poking fun at himself.

So, does this comment offend you pros or do you deep down agree?

[Peter Jochems]

.

[Mary Sparrow]

I don't think his term snob was meant toward the person's personality itself. I think he was referring to his idea that portrait artists feel superior to other artists. In other words, to be a portrait painter means you are better than those that only paint still lifes and landscapes. That those that don't paint portraits don't because they can't. Therefore the portrait painter feels superior. I believe that is what he meant.

[Peter Jochems]

.

[Patt Legg]

I think he was referring to his idea that portrait artists feel superior to other artists. In other words, to be a portrait painter means you are better than those that only paint still lifes and landscapes

Mary, I can sure relate to your feelings about all of this. Reading your words nearly seemed as though some of it was pulled from my head.

But in all fairness, through all of my fear and feelings of being inadequate, I actually attended Marvin's workshop in Greensboro recently. Believe me, I was so intimidated as I shared this fear via this Forum with a few of the members who also were going to attend.

This stuff that I had envisioned in my head all disappeared gradually as I met them one by one. Beth, Alicia, Bill, Irene, Renee, Denise and of course, Marvin himself. (Forgive me if I forgot someone.)

As in life itself, I came away from that workshop having learned a little more about everyone, but more importantly, I learned more about myself. Many of us have issues, many of us feel insecure at times, many of us feel threatened, we all share an enormous amount of something commonly known as "being human". The ones who say they don't feel some or all of the above - well, know that is still a human quality.

I would go again (to the workshop) and meet all who were there. To think that I nearly stopped myself from going due to my own fears.

Thanks Denise, Beth, Renee and all of you.

[Kimberly Dow]

Mary,

What a timely posting. I was just talking about this with my husband because of my bare-chested boys post. He felt I was being ripped apart pretty harshly. And I have received some private emails from members here who are maybe shy; expressing things like, "keep your chin up," and the like. I have to admit some of that stung a bit, especially since I have been a professional for 16 years, (not specializing in portraits though).

As I explained to my husband though, most of the artists here do very formal work compared to what I was attempting to do in that particular painting. I took that into consideration when reading posts. People here are free to boldly share their opinions. Harsh as some of it seemed, I can see that most of it was true. (I still do not think he is scary. Even though at least 4 of the others used that word!)

With those kind of reactions, no matter how much I liked that painting I had to re-think what I was trying to convey. As with anything else, people all respond in different ways and express themselves with varied degrees of tact. Reading as many posts as I can, I have yet to see any that seemed intentionally mean. At least that is how I have to see it or I would not continue to be here! It seems like the artists here have truly good intentions for helping others.

I hear you about taking the less than perfect reference materials. I knew I would hear that a lot and considered not posting because of it. Learning to be a decent photographer will take a while, not to mention that I need new camera equipment. In the meantime though, the bills need to be paid.

As much as a lot of the artists here will lecture about not taking bad references because it may hurt us later, they HAVE to understand that this is an unsteady income, even if they are highly sucessful now. I have never had a client unhappy, as well. Perhaps a couple of paintings will haunt me later, but I am not going to turn down a less-than-perfect job when if I do (and this has been the choice in the past) I will not be able to buy what I need to keep painting.

Nothing is going to stop me from painting, even my ideals. And I do not see that as being unprofessional. I see it as being very professional because even with the horrible references my clients have been thrilled.

I was nervous knowing I would hear about the bad references, but I truly want to learn more, and that includes how to deal with the bad references because sometimes it is just a fact of life. If there are snobs among us, oh well. It won't stop me and it shouldn't stop you either! Curse at them out loud (we can't hear you) then decide if anything they said was valid.

Some artists seem snobbier than others. I wonder if that helps get more affluent clients? I bet it doesn't hurt. Of course understanding how a person intended a comment to sound is hard when it is typed.

I have met some wonderful artists here who are great, yet still human and sweet. And some whom I am honored even made a response at all. Where else could we get this? I have several I want to take workshops from.

Out of the ones I admire I will go to the kindest ones first, it can only help the nerves! Then I will brave the ones that seem more intimidating. Just for a note, I will attend one of Tim Tyler's workshops first. The ones who are extremely sucessful AND kind just show so much class.