Speak to me about yellow. . . .
 

I see several folks who mix a dark(er) yellow using raw umber. They start with raw umber, and bit of yellow ochre, and continue lightening with yellow ochre for a step or two, and then begin lightening yellow ochre with white. It works well, but can anyone explain why?

It doesn't seem like it would happen this way, but when you use this really "dark" version of yellow with a red, you get a really dull orange, so I guess the yellow component is there, hiding in that dark mix.

I would appreciate anything anyone can tell me about this, or any other curious mixture.

Richard, I use yellow ochre as my flesh "mother color" and it is wonderful to use it to lighten darker colors (i.e., shadows) without colors going chalky (as they would if you lightened with a white). (You lose transparency, though.)

I'm also interested in how other painters do this, and thanks for bringing this up.

Richard,
Raw Umber is basically a dark yellow. If you want to darken a yellow with black you need to add some red to prevent it to turn greenish.
Just like Terra De Sienna is a dark orange and Indian Red is a dark red.
Allan

I like to mix a scales of Raw Umber, Raw Sienna, Yellow Ochre, Yellow of Napoles and mixed White. Then I add Cerulian Blue to get it cooler, Ultramarine Blue to get it darker (I never use Black); and Cad Reds to get it warmer.
Ps. I never mix Yellow of Napoles with Cerulian Blue because it contains sulfur. I love Alizarin Crimson, but it gets brown with time.

Is it really the raw umber?
 

Hi Richard,

I am very aware that raw umber is considered a yellow, but for the life of me I do not understand why. Maybe if you compare it to burnt umber, or burnt siena, it's less red, but I think classifying it as a yellow is just a way of forcing it into a category instead of appreciating it for what it is: a cool earth tone.

I tried some mixtures along the lines of what you describe, and I think it is the yellow ochre mixed with the red that is creating the orange, while the raw umber is creating the dullness. By itself, mixed with just white, raw umber is a warm neutral, or a cool brown-grey.

Alex

I agree with Alexandra. The umbers should just be classified as earth tones..."tierra de sombra" is the name for umber here (earth shadow?). I don

I guess that it was a question of color family relations more than the degree of it ?
I have learned that there are only three totally different colors, blue, red and yellow and that all other colors are mixtures from them + more or less light.
I still believe that the Raw Umber belongs to the yellow family. To prove my point I have put up mixtures of blue, red and yellow. The Raw Umber is only mixed with Titanium White but stil shows the yellow characteristic, I think. ;)

Allan

Hey, Allan, I didn't mean to start an argument! :) I guess it is a matter of perception. I know that to many people, raw umber looks like it is in the yellow family. You are probably in the majority here. But to me, when I look at it, all I see is a neutral earthy tone. When I think of yellow, I think of sunlight and warmth. But raw umber is dull, opaque, and rather cool to my eye. Don't get me wrong, I respect your perception of it, but as hard as I try I can't see it! I guess that's why different artists use different colors.

Alex

I think that Raw Umber varies substantially from company to company. Anybody want to post theirs here?

We should ask Garth "The Tube Collector" Herrick, he probably has most major brands of Raw Umber in one of his drawers.

Speak to me about Raw Umber
 

Yes Linda, I found seven tubes of "raw umber" handy to compare. They are each unique and special in their own way and will impart different results in mixtures on the palette. I drew these color out with a knife on a sheet of mylar, then made three levels of tints using Robert Doak Flake White + Glass (flake white with ground glass mixed in).

1. Good old Winsor and Newton: not a very interesting raw umber, it is the darkest and most oily out of the tube and by far, the weakest in tinting strength; so there is low pigment content in their formula.

2. Schmincke Mussini Umbra Cypr. Natur: much more interesting color, dramatically more infused with color than the above example; still not all that much in pigment concentration or tinting strength.

3. Schmincke Mussini Umbra Natur Hell: This is truly a rich deep yellow, being somewhere in between a raw umber and a raw sienna. It's the lightest and most colorful of these umbers; same in tint strength as the previous example.

4. Holbein Raw Umber: This is a classic raw umber much like the darker Mussini above. It clearly is a high quality product with significant tinting strength and higher pigment load.

5. Schmincke Norma Umbra Natur Grunlich: This is a fantastic light shade of raw umber with a decidedly greenish cast, and surprisingly, unlike the Mussini tubes, it has incredible tinting strength and pigment load.

6. Vasari Raw Umber: A super high quality product made by one man in his New Jersey shop and sold at one venue in Manhattan, NYC. This is a dark raw umber of incredible tinting strength and the highest in pigment concentration of these tubes. It is what you should be using if you like the color variety of the Winsor and Newton raw umber but hate the low quality.

7. Old Holland Raw Umber: This is a warm and colorful raw umber, similar in tinting strength to the Mussini tubes.

I hope this helps with the accompanying illustrating photo; thanks to Linda for nudging me into action.

Garth

Thanks, Garth And Linda!

I had no idea there was such a difference between brands. It's almost outrageous that they all should be called "raw umber." The Mussini (natur hell) and Old Holland look yellow to me when lightened. A couple more look like a slightly yellowish brown. This is so interesting! I have been using W&N which is probably the most neutral of all, and I assumed there was at least a reasonable consistency between brands.

Garth, this is terrific! Thank you!

Garth - you are SO dang handy to have around! This is great - thank you!

Would you think about doing this with every other color please? You know - when you get a free month or so?

Garth,
I had no idea that the variations were that many either. The Raw Umber I used was from a Danish firm called Artifix. It is also in the cool end of the scale and does not show the yellow that much. I think that it looks like your # 2 and it is also a heavy tinter. The Umber I have been using the most is from Daler-Rowney, it is more yellow, but I ran out of it.

Alex,
I also use the Raw Umber as a neutral and find it very useful. In the company of reds and bright ochers in the skintones it is a wonderful cool neutral, and I do not disagree with you in that or anything else for that matter. My prime interest, in here, besides of the excelent company, is to learn. :)

Allan

I make your words mine Kim.

I noticed that variation long ago so I started using the Louvre and Old Holland brands. I'd like to see the same procedure with the other colors too.

I'd like to add my thanks too, Garth. After seeing these I plan on replacing my current raw umber with one of the more vibrant brands. What a difference!

Jean

yellow in shadows
 

I think Linda's use of yellow ochre to lighten shadows is an interesting offshoot of this topic, and I would also like to hear whether other artists do this, and if they use yellow in shadows at all.

I use cadmiums a lot in shadows, especially cad yellow, yellow deep, and orange. I find the cadmiums useful in painting the indirect light which is seen as an object turns away from the direct sunlight, and the continuation of that color as a minor player in the shadow. I mix these colors with their complements, the shadow colors. I find that the addition of cadmium to the shadows makes the shadow deeper and more transparent. If I add yellow, it can lighten a shadow and warm it, but it doesn't take away from the illusion of depth or airy quality. My only problems with cadmiums is that they photograph very bright, and even when I get my paintings photographed professionally, I sometimes get frustrated because they look a lot less subtle than the color of the actual painting.

Desperately seeking yellow!
 

Garth,

I had no idea that there was so much difference in brands of raw umber! The problem is, now you've started something. ;) I am searching for a clean yellow. I've read about and used yellow ochre since day one, but it has a tendency to be muddy (W&N especially), and can dull colors. So in my search for a clean, warm, not glow-in-the-dark yellow, I have tried:
Maimeri Naples Yellow Deep- I love this color and use it for light mixtures, but is too light for lower values
Daniel Smith Yellow Ochre-the closest thing I've found but I'd like something cleaner
Maimeri Golden Lake- great yellow that does not turn blonds into greens but is a bit too orange and strong for flesh--but perfect for blond hair
Old Holland Naples Yellow Deep Extra- again too orange
Cennini Jaune Brilliant- a pretty & high pigment yellow, but still brighter than I'm looking for.

I'm looking for a clean, earthy warm yellow that isn't muddy or overpowering. Suggestions? Does one exist or am I doomed to mixing different yellows for eternity?

Thanks in advance,

Renee

Garth, Renaissance man -

Color maestro, technical maven, and master painter -
how do you have time to do it all?

Thanks for this newest paint brand review! I've learned a lot from the other ones you've done on this forum over the years, and want you to know it's really appreciated.

I like naples yellow to lighten darks also. Thanks Garth, good thread.

Two yellows I love, both Micheal Hardings.

Naples Genuine light
Yellow Ochre.

Most Naples Yellows are a mixture of a white and a Cadmium Yellow. Micheal Hardings is not. It is a clear light yellow, a tad cool. It is great for lightening colors while not making them ashen, especially reds.

It is exquisite in light skin-tones as well.

Yes, the one that I am using is from Williamsburg. On the color chart it's Naples yellow Italian, PBr 24, chrome titanate.

That is a horse of a different color. It is not the same pigment at all. Here is Micheal Hardings. Try it, it is exquiste in skin-tones. I have never wanted for another light yellow.

http://www.michaelharding.co.uk/colour-info.php?cID=131

Is that the same as "lead Tin yellow"?
OK, I do have a little extra money today and some time with the computer. I'll go order some Michael Harding paint. :)

PS. Yes I was just reading about the Michael Harding yellow from your link, and the Lead Tin Yellow that I got from Doaks will react with the metal on the pallet knife also, so it's probably the same chemical. It's several years old now so I need some more.

Yes indeedy! It is good old lead tin yellow! You will love it. It goes a long way.

How does it react? I do not seem to have had a negative result with it using my cheapo palette knife.

Just reading their description of Michael Hardings cremnitz white ground in walnut oil has gotten me all excited. I have long been a fan of walnut oil and as I have said before, it's the feel under the brush that makes the difference. It appears that they also know that to be true.

It will cause some graying of the color. The yellow if mixed with anything metal will have some strange gray streaks in it. I noticed it before I knew what it was. It's still usable though, even if that happens.

Hi to all, can I also bring to your attention the amazing Harding's lemon yellow ? A cool cool yellow that goes toward green with a good enough tinting power (not similar to the chart on the website) beautiful in mixes and great for accents. I think that it's a pure colour that can't be obtained from mixing without loosing chroma.
Worth having.
Ilaria