Soft light or strong light for model?
 

After some discussion on another thread about lighting the model, I have some examples that I need help with. My main question is just how strong should the light be? What's ideal? The soft north light or a stronger light making sharper shadows? It seems to me that the stronger light and therefore stronger shadows would be easier to paint, at least for a beginner like me.

This first example is of my son in my 'studio' with my new backdrop painted the greyish green Bill Whitaker suggested. I used a too weak bulb, a flourescent 18 watt to supplement north light on a cloudy day, late in the afternoon. I should have used a reflector to get some light into the shadows. But, this is an example of what I usually get: RED people.

Joan

Second example
 

Okay, now here is my daughter sitting about 5 feet away from a huge north lit window about noon on a cloudy day. I tried to make sure the lower part of the window was blocked off so I wouldn't gett too much light bouncing up onto the underside of her neck. It seems my camera captured some cooler colors for a change. I am just so happy not to have another photo of a RED person. Here is my question:

Are these shadows too subtle to paint from?

One more
 

This is a friend of my mother's, sitting in the same position as the previous example. About 4-5 feet away from a huge northern facing window, noon, cloudy day.

I see shadows, but again, perhaps not sharp/strong enough? I welcome and look forward to any comments about how I can improve my reference shots.

thank you,

Joan

Strong shadows like these?
 

This is a photo I took in my portrait class of our model. Nice strong shadows, but again, she's pretty red. I just took this snapshot so I could finish the portrait at home, used my Canon PoswerShot S30. I don't know what kind of lighting is used in the studio where I take classes, I don't think the bulbs are anything fancy.

Are these the kind of strong shadows necessary to get good form?

thanks again,

Joan

Sorry about all the posts.

Hi Joan -

I don't have much time to write this morning, but a quick question:

Does your camera allow you a way to change your white balance? I have a powershot, an older model, and it has a place where I can adjust it according to the lighting situation - incandescent, sunny day, cloudy day, automatic, etc. Even do your own balance, which I admit I haven't learned to do yet.

That may be your problem.

On my employer's time, I'll respond only to this question, regarding your second example.

I think the value design is very good here, very workable. I'm not sure if by "subtle," you mean that the shadow isn't very dark and sharply delineated. Usually only an intense, close, single light source (or direct sunlight) will give you that, and unless you're doing cast drawings in a studio, there's no good reason that I know of to go for that effect, especially on a young, soft-complexioned female. That is, maybe it would go over on a grizzled cowhand, corral-side under a midday sun, but not here.

Of your four examples, this is the one that I would be most inclined to pursue. On my monitor, the first and fourth are impossibly dark -- squint at them and the figures disappear completely.

Hi Julie,

Thank you for your reply. I think it does but I never learned how to do that! I'll investigate.

Hi Steven,

That's exactly what I mean. I mean the transitions between shadow and light are not well defined. I don't necessarily mean shadows that are not dark, but I think with the more diffused light I am by definition not going to get dark shadows. At least that's what it seems like to me.

Thank you Steven for replying, especially on your employer's time.

Joan

Joan, I think the example of your daughter is lighted just about perfectly. You would rarely want any greater degree of contrast between lit and unlit areas, anyway. Much more contrast than this and your camera couldn't handle it anyway. You'd end up with blasted out white light areas and deep impenetrable darks. Not good to paint from.

The shots that turn out red are probably, as was suggested, problems with your white balance setting on your camera. It is probably set by default to match the window light that you had on your daughter and your Mom's friend, since the color on those is great.

When we shoot by artificial light we run into lots of different colors of lighting. The reddest ones look like they are lit by incandescent light(regular houshold bulbs) but that your camera's white balance is still set for natural daylight. Check out that feature and be sure it's set to match whatever the main light source is.

Definitely read your camera's manual on how to adjust white balance. It makes such a difference.

I like the photo of your son, too. You can color correct photos in Photoshop, and lighten the darks to get more information.

Thank you all
 

Dear Michele, Cindy, Steven, and Julie,

Thank you all for taking the time to post such insightful and thoughtful answers, I really appreciate it. Thanks to you all I think I will be able to take much better photos as soon as I get the white balance figured out. With the Thanksgiving holidays starting tomorrow I'll have two almost willing subjects to take lots of photos of over the break. First, of course, I need to get out my manual and read up on white balance.

I am still very much interested in hearing more opinions on just how delineated/sharp the line should be where the shadow meets the light. I suppose it also depends on the mood I want to convey. And like so much, there is probably no magic answer.

thanks,

Joan

There's no "should" involved, any more than you'd ask, what "should" I include for props, or how "should" I pose my subject. You make those choices so that the result will be in service to the overall effect that you're trying to achieve.

Middle value transitions between shadow and light value shapes are wonderful areas where amazing things happen, for it is in those locations that color is often most richly revealed and used to its best purpose, since it is neither washed out by the brighter lights nor dulled by shadow. Cultivate that opportunity and exploit it, rather than looking for ways to minimize such transition areas.

Yes, mood is a consideration, as is the physical quality of the subject. That craggy cowhand's face can easily manage a sharp-edged shadow cast by a hat brim, and we will see every wrinkle and fold and whisker. Bringing that kind of focus to bear on that sort of detail in, say, a young woman's face will only seem harsh and unflattering in most cases. On the other hand, if your intent is to convey a sense of brilliant strong lighting, the sharper definitions are probably in order. (I'll try to find some examples to add later, as I have some in mind.)

Remember that a hard edge, a sharply defined boundary of a value area, attracts the viewer's attention to that area (or in certain applications, creates depth, which itself is an attention gathering device). You are in control of whether or not that happens.

Exactly. It depends on the subject and the mood you want. Look at paintings you like and see how they did it.

Remember, though, that when you set up a model in the light you think would be just right, it will usually turn out to be too contrasty in the photograph. That's what cameras do, whether film or digital. They increase contrast, sometimes by a huge amount.

A simple tip when shooting by window light (which is the easiest way to start in any case): In order to increase contrast between the lit and unlit sides of the face just move the subject closer to the window, to decrease contrast move him or her away from the window.

Transition areas
 

Thank you Steven, you have opened up my eyes to looking at transition areas in a whole new way. I tend to try and minimize the transitions because I don't feel confident painting those areas! But, just reading your post has made me want to master the transition areas. Very valuable insight for me, thank you.

Joan

Michele,

Great suggestion! For some reason I tend to think I must have a sharp delineation between shadow and light. I'll look at books and see someone like Renoir who has painted the dark side of a face a medium tone, at best, and I'll wonder 'why does that work'? It has been drilled into my head by previous instructors to paint shadows dark, dark, and darker.

I understand there must be some dark somewhere in the painting, otherwise the painting will look washed out. But still, there are some paintings where the darks just aren't that dark and I think they work. Though again, that may be to portray a soft mood.

thank you,

Joan

Now you're starting to refer to the "key" of the painting. The high-key paintings you refer to (in which "the darks just aren't all that dark") work because the narrower range of values that are used are well managed in relation to each other. There are no absolute values that must appear -- you don't have to have a near-black value on one end and a near-white value on the other -- you just have to make sure that the darkest value you do use goes only where the darks should go, and the lightest values you use go only where the lights should go, all in relation to each other in the overall value design. Squint, squint, squint at your subject or resource to sense the location of the different value areas and shapes.

Key has no necessary relation to edges and transitions.

I suspect that those who advised you that shadows must be dark were probably just trying to get you to extend your value range. That is, perhaps you naturally paint in a high key. When you're starting out and trying to master the depiction of form, it's much easier to use an extended value range -- get those dark darks in there, as well as the light lights, and everything in between. The subtlety of a narrower value range (whether high, middle or low key) is tougher to parse.

You are right, Joan, there is no correct answer. If the light moves you, go with it. Just be constantly on the lookout for a beautifully lit subject and then, if you can't take a photo right at that moment, try to replicate the light for your painting.

Personally I like the light in the two reference photos of your daughter and your mother's friend the best. The light/shadow relationship is definitely not too subtle and, in fact, is excellent for a portrait. If you're going to be painting from life in a studio with the dark green-gray walls, make sure there is a good, clear, even light coming from the window and move the person near the light source. If you take a photo, you can manually set the light meter for the light side of the face, or use spot metering taken from the light side. Were you using artificial light for both of the dark photos? That might not work very well, but I couldn't say for sure, since I've never tried it. (My studio walls are off-white.)

Alex

Higher key
 

Hi Steven,

Thank you for your reply. I apologize for taking so long to thank you for it, I've only just come back from Thanksgiving holiday vacation.

I think you are absolutely right about this. My instructors are trying to teach me to model form and certainly it's easier with a broader value range. Hmm, I just didn't realize it could be done effectively in a narrow value range. But I suppose that's why paintings I see in books do work, even though they are in a higher key. So, what you're saying is . . .. . . I can do anything I want! Yippee! Oh, it just has to work though.

I think my last instructor taught using the broadest value range and kept telling me to do the same thing, I just didn't think it was "right" to do it otherwise. Certainly this example shows me the value of taking lessons from different instructors. Thank you for putting this into words and explaining it to me.

Joan

Hi Alexandra,

I apologize for taking so long to thank you for your post. You help reinforce the fact that I can pretty much try what I like. I'm a 'rules' person and I like having rules . . . but I realize once I learn the rules (not that I have) then they can be broken.

In the samples I posted at the beginning of this thread, the girl with glasses was shot with artificial light in the studio where I take lessons. I'm going to look next classperiod at what kind of lights are being used. The photo of my son was taken indoors with a combination of weak artificial light and some light coming in a window.

I am beginning to understand that the subtle/soft light transitions can be desirable. Now I just need to paint them convincingly. As I said before, they're my biggest challenge.

I spent some time with my camera's manual and came up with what I think is a good reference photo of my daughter. I only wish I had dragged along some kind of backdrop, oh well.

Here it is:

Joan

Joan, I just wanted to add to this excellent and interesting discussion that there seems to be a modern portrait "convention" (certainly not a "rule") that the younger the subject, the narrower the value range between the lit side and shadow side in the face.

This was not always the case in portraiture. I can think of several Sargents, for example, that feature young subjects with darker value shadows. I suspect that many clients today would find such portrayals of their young children as too "gloomy". The emphasis (in this country anyway) for children's portraits is on charming, fresh, light, happy, etc. . As I browse through websites and look at hundreds of contemporary portraits, it seems to me that darker shadows are often reserved for subjects who require qualities such as intensity, power and drama.

I would also add that many women's portraits have a lower contrast ratio between the lit and unlit sides, too. Women "of a certain age" (ie anyone my age or older!) generally prefer somewhat softer and more frontal lighting to minimize wrinkles, compared to what you'd see on a man's portrait where, as Linda said, the emphasis might be on boldness and drama.

Your boy
 

I didn't read all of the post before I also adjusted your photo in Photoshop. Now, I see that somebody else has also done it. I hope it helps anyways.

I adjusted it using Levels and Selective Color. I also put two images on top of each other and erased the background out of one, so that I could adjust the colors/values on the background and face seperately.

I love this face. His smile is wonderful and the pose is very classical. The shadows fall all at the right places.

When you paint it I would be sure to keep adjusting your colors. Don't accept your scrap as the final color study. Bring mixtues of flake white and Cerulean Blue into the hightlights on the nose and bridge between eyes. Bring mixtures of Ivory Black and white into other parts of the face to cool down the temperature. Sap green is a great way to do the same thing. I would also deepen the value of the eye lashes and put some white with Ultramarine blue into the whites of the eyes.

Basically, if you can bring cools into the whites of the eyes and highlights on the face than it balances out a warm face.

Good luck. . . I would work from this scrap. I think it could be an amazing portrait!!

Molly, thanks for showing us what modifications are possible in Photoshop, and for explaining what functions you used to do it. I use Photoshop every day but there are so many features I don't know at all. I had no idea an original photo with color that was this far off could ever be brought back to something so natural looking!

Hi Molly,

Thank you for your post and welcome to the forum! Thank you for all the time you must have spent with my photo in Photoshop. I don't have Photoshop but to see what you've done with that photo, I'm just about convinced I need to buy it.


With suggestions from artists on this forum, I experimented with some of the settings on my camera, mainly the white balance, and came up with some better reference photos. See the link here:
http://forum.portraitartist.com/show...=Joan+negative

If you look at post #27, Allan Rahbek was kind enough to also use Photoshop to show me a great suggetion of how to crop the photo. I think I got a great expression and a photo with all the shadows in the right places.

Thanks again for showing us what Photoshop can do.

Joan