Kevin
 

This is a portrait of my son, Kevin, that I am working on and having some trouble with. I apologize for the dark reference photo and don't know if it will help, however it is all I have. The photograph is appealing to me because of the light falling on his face.

My problem seems to be with the mouth and I have looked at it upside down, in a mirror and till my eyeballs are rolling in my head! In my drawing it looks like he is pursing his lips. This is the second attempt at this portrait and I may have to begin again, which is fine. I want to get it right.

I would like opinions on how far to go with the plaid jacket, I know it needs work to make it look like it curves at the front properly, and to "finish it". The photo does not show the shadows as dark as they seem to be in actuality. I may try to take them further with an 8B. I need to fix the eye on our right, if you look closely the iris is not right.

Thanking you in advance!

The reference photo, for what it is worth...

closer view, scary eye, yikes!!!!

Can you post a closer (and lighter?) version of the reference photo too?

See if this helps ...

Thank you, Mike.

I had a bad experience last night. I worked on Kevin and went too far with my nit-pickiness and ended up making a mess. So it is back to square one. However, what I learned was that I did not like the tooth of this paper and will work, instead on the other side, which is smoother. I tend to overwork pieces, any suggestions?

Very frustrated when a good drawing is ruined.

Me, too. I hope yours didn't include folding your drawing up into a WhiteWings airplane and sailing it over the rail into the sea, because I don't think you were far from quite a successful piece.

I've been searching for just the right exemplars to post, but haven't had luck, so I'll just note that I think most of the difficulty you were having had to do with 1) getting the right values and 2) getting them in the right place, in order to correctly describe the form.

Obviously you were dealing with a pretty recalcitrant reference photo when it came to seeking information, but I think you began to get into trouble when departing from the overall value scheme, especially in bringing too much light into the shadow side of the face. This left a stripe of dark value right down the middle, with the effect of, among other things, making the mouth look a little beak'ed, or "pursed," as you put it.

Go fish that drawing out of the water and have another go, remembering that form comes before -- long before -- details.

Patricia,

I know something about nitpicking and I would suggest that big toothed paper does not lend itself to this activity.

Many years ago I showed one of my paintings to an old artist, he looked it over and suggested that it had "died of borning." What I took from that was that it's birth, and it's death, had occured simultaneously. An interesting observation that I will never forget.

I like what you have started above. As to the plaid shirt, I don't think I would go all that much further with it.

Well Steven and Mike,
You both brought me to a smile and that helps immensely!!!! You are exactly right, it died of borning, I LOVE that phrase and I am so guilty of it. I complain all the time that I can kill a portrait in the last hour of work (which is why my drawing from a week long workshop sits unfinished - too afraid of carrying it too far and ruining a week long, intense piece!) Mike, what kind of paper would you suggest???

I did not fold it into an airplane and sail it off the sixth floor balcony (a great idea!) I forced myself to just put it away. But I awoke this morning with it looking at me and I had that sinking "morning after" awareness that it did not get better all by itself overnight! So it is back to square one except that I do believe smoother paper will be a key.

Yes, it did look like I had a dark "stripe" of shadow down the center of the face. It actually did not look that obvious in person, but I knew I had to furn the form with better tonal range. The grainy paper just wouldn't do it for me.

Well, I will post my next efforts and I will wish for you to have a better day today in your studio Steven!!

Tony Ryder says in his book that he uses Strathmore 400 Drawing paper, with a medium smooth surface.

Patricia,

My way up north buddy, Juan Martinez, offered this regarding drawing papers. I don't know where in the forum it resides, I have it in my personal archives.

Juan writes:

For more finished drawings in pencil (graphite) and/or charcoal, you'll probably end up finding that you will need a couple of different papers. For example, the Stonehenge I am familiar has a relatively smooth texture and takes graphite well. And, as Peggy said, it is tough. I find it too smooth for charcoal, however, so for that, I use a paper with more tooth so that the charcoal has something to grab hold of.

My favourite papers for finished drawings of the non-graphite variety (charcoal, carbon pencil) are all from Fabriano. Some of them are normally sold as watercolour paper, but they are superb drawing papers. The best all-round one is Fabriano UNO. It is double-sized so it is tough. I use the one they call "soft press" which is not as heavily textured as the cold press. (Hot press is too smooth generally for finished drawings. It can be done, but it takes way too much work). Anyway, UNO is 100% cotton and acid-free. I also use Fabriano FA5 which is a less expensive version of the UNO. It is only 50% cotton content, but is also acid-free. Both are very tough and can stand a lot of abuse, although perfect erasure is nearly impossible.

Finally, for purely charcoal use, the Fabriano Roma line is excellent. It is not quite as tough as the previously mentioned ones, but because of that (maybe it has less sizing) it seems to accept more charcoal and it does erase almost perfectly (be gentle, though; use a kneadable eraser). The line has names such as Roma Michelangelo or Roma Tizziano, etc. These designate different colours.

Hope it helps.

Juan

Thanks Michele and Mike. Of course I should know what Tony uses and I do have some. He used the smoother side also.

I have had great luck with the more expensive Fabriano but I don't like the 50/50 I've picked up at my local art store. It is too rough to be 100% erasable. In fact I think this drawing is done on the Fabriano, less expensive brand.

Back to the drawing board!!! Thank you for the time you took to find this information and to respond to my inquiry. I'm going home to my studio after work and sorting through all my drawing paper...

And maybe put on some soft music!!!!

and pour a glass of wine...

and start anew!!

Kevin a third try...
 

I've been working on this third attempt this week and am stopping here to post. I feel I am fairly close to finishing the face but am having problems in a few areas. Any suggestions, as always, will be appreciated as I value your critiques more than you can know...

1. This is on Strathmore 400 paper which is much smoother and has been easier to work on, however the paper does not help with rendering the short hair (the toothier paper last time almost gave the very short hair appearance with no effort) Any suggestions?

2. Still not altogether happy with the mouth but am not sure why. I really wish my son lived close by, I would have him sit for me. He's in the middle of the ocean off the shore of Mexico (Coast Guard) and I will not see him until July (sad mom!) Anyway, I am e-mailing him these pics and he really likes this one... But there is something I am not seeing around the mouth.

3. Am I better off leaving the whole side in the full sunlight clean, or should I continue the attempt to turn the side of the face away from viewer?

Thank you, in advance, for your input.

Looking at this online...do I need to darken the value of his check and forehead on the shadow side? Or is the upper lip too dark? I know the hair and shape of top of head needs work, too.

Patricia, glad to see you are persistant. You know what a sucker I am of "unfinshed" work, so I'll say there's a look to this that I really like, especially the sunlit side. I wish the pic size and quality were better for screen viewing. They look too compressed, and there may be details in the original that we are not viewing.

It was that exact post from Juan that Mike put up where I learned about Stonehenge. It's a great paper to try, the light gray is my favorite. Good luck.

I think I'm finished with this one. I struggled with the lip line, which I usually enjoy doing. I think it was because I know so much of my son's likeness, distinctiveness is in his mouth and I really wanted to capture that. I also think the contrast on the shadow of the chin is too strong.

I tried to push values but since the darkets plane is (our) right side of the front of the face I did not want it to look too square. I was trying to work around the flaws of photography. I would appreciate any input. I am happy with this likeness but there's no punch.

Thanks

"I tend to overwork pieces, any suggestions?"

If you draw as a realist, you compete with perfection, making the viewer intolerant. If you draw as an impressionist, you allow the viewer's mind to fill in the blanks and release his mind from the higher criticism that a very tight drawing demands. I am an impressionist when it comes to drawing, and I try to leave as much to the imagination as possible. You can get a good likeness without being a perfectionist. The work you did on the shirt does this somewhat. I think it is a good drawing.

What is it that drives us to overwork a drawing? Is it a weak concept of our drawing goals? Is it a lack of acceptance of our own work? Is it some kind of compulsion?

I have recently added a seven minute drawing to my offerings. I charge seven dollars. There are about 250 lines on average. I know when the drawing is done - it is when the last line is drawn. No erasing. The Saturday before Valentine's Day, I drew over fifty of these. I have overcome the "overwork" problem. Unfortunately, I am the one who is overworked. These are impressionistic drawings, but they are likenesses. It is a matter of choice. If you feel your work is overworked, you mey need to adjust your line technique to forbid you the option.

[QUOTE=Lon Haverly]"I tend to overwork pieces, any suggestions?"



What is it that drives us to overwork a drawing? Is it a weak concept of our drawing goals? Is it a lack of acceptance of our own work? Is it some kind of compulsion?

Hi Lon,
Wow! it's great to hear from you. In fact I was just thinking about you this morning on my drive to work. Wondering how you have been with your television broadcast, and figuring I had not seen you on the forum because you have been so busy. I hope it is all going well for you. I would love to see some of your recent seven minute drawings.

Your words ring true (in quotes). I would not say that my goals are weak as I feel I am learning so much about form and light as it falls on form. My technique has not developed to a point where I feel I even have one, and I want to develop technique, too. I am drawing every day and taking life drawing and portrait drawing. But I do not have interraction with other portraitists other than here. When I was in Fla in Tony Ryder's workshop I did not want to draw with so many good artists and Tony there. I wanted to watch them work, understand how their techinique got their drawings to beautifully finished stages.

I have your book. And I love your drawings. I do believe that if I had the confidence to lay down lines as you do my drawings would improve. In my classes there are many short poses the longest only being 20 minutes. I think I will concentrate more on line, especially in the Thursday portrait class.

Seven minutes, twenty-five lines - how in the world did you get to that formula??! I want to see some of these drawings if you could post them, I would be ever grateful. In the meantime will go back to view your previously posted drawings.

Thanks you, Lon.

Well, 250 lines or so, I estimate. The point being, I have a very systematic method which limits me, and I jolly well know when the drawing is done.

(I have been busy, but not with the TV show, which is very slow going. I moved to a new location, a mall which used to be referred to as the jail bait mall. Well, it turns out that my business doubled!!!! And, I learned something about marketing to my community. I have been very busy.)

I have been contemplating the dilemma of overworking a drawing. I would rather stick to my format and dump the drawing, than overwork it. I like to leave the lines alone and learn to trust my lines. It boils down to the integrity of the drawing itself. It is hard to correct a drawing, especially graphite, without doing it damage. If you are in the early stages of layout, that is one thing. But if you have a network of lines and you try to erase a few of them, you destroy the network.

It is much easier to fall subject to overworking if you are a photo realist, as there is a bottomless pit of detail you indulge in. If you work this way, you cannot give the viewer any small detail to criticize. ANy small error will be rejected by the mind. If you draw like an impressionist you get the landmarks right but are looser in the interpretation of the masses. You allow the viewer to use his imagination and fill in the blanks. He forgives the lines and thus the likeness emerges without the busy work. It is entertaining to the mind. It is an illusion of a likeness.

I will post a drawing tonight {when I am on a PC which has some drawings) to illustrate my point.

I look forward to seeing your posting, Lon. I walk by empty kiosks in my mall whenever I go there (it is right across the street from my apartment building) and I think of you! Sounds like you're in the right spot for your drawings, and I can imagine people standing in line for a $7 Lon Haverly!! What a deal!

My estimate was low, for what it is worth. Over 500 strokes. Here is a 7 minute $7 pencil sketch. Good, bad or ugly, this is what I do. I call it a "Pencil Sampler." It is a paid demonstration. It illustrates the idea that I am an impressionist, and that the only thing overworked in my studio is me. These are drawn on printer paper with a 4B lead. No erasing.

Just an interesting aside...
 

My son, Kevin, whose portrait is posted here just emailed me from the Pacific Ocean (off the shores of El Salvador and Guatemala) from the Coast Guard Cutter Active with their newsletter. Seems my 22 yr old son has been a busy man as they rescued (some time in the past few weeks - security stuff disallowed me from knowing this earlier) a 40-foot boat adrift with 109 migrants, including a pregnant woman. The small boat had departed Ecuador nine days earlier with dreams of reaching the US. Five days into the voyage the vessel broke down and the food and water supplies were exhausted. The crew deserted the boat leaving the migrants adrift. They had been without food and water for three days when the Active arrived. The migrants were transferred to the Active and provided with food, water, blankets and critical medical attention, were watched over round the clock and delivered safely to another CG cutter.

No sooner had they finished with that rescue that they boarded a fishing vessel loaded with more than five tons of cocaine with a street value of over $98M. Two Go-Fast vessels were aprehended as they were disabled with .50 caliber sniper rifle fire. Kevin's crewmen detained six individuals and transferred the crewmembers and the evidence to another Coast Guard cutter.

Thankfully they are now heading up the Pacific Coast to the waters of the Pacific Northwest, to home in Port Angeles, WA. And in three weeks I will be out there for a visit. I'm sure Kevin will have great tales for me. He pilots's the Active and is an Officer on Deck in charge of 1/3 of the crew. Your Coast Guard hard at work and

A Proud Mama here!!

Mrs. Joyce, your second attempt is a great improvement over the first; much better likeness. Your technique reminds me a bit of Andrew Loomis -is anyone is familiar with work?

Matthew

P.S. - Your son sounds like he lives a pretty exciting life! I can amagine how proud you are!

Matthew, I'm certain that a number of members would find this matter of "seeing a project through" very thought-provoking and would be eager to comment -- but that's all going to get lost in this thread, which ought anyway to be focused on Patty's critique.

I'd very much encourage you to begin a new topic in the Cafe to get this discussion rolling. (If you'd like some assistance doing this, let me know.) We are even now looking into adjusting the Cafe a little to make it easier to find and participate in discussions of "artist's life" matters just like this. Just part of our Famous Ongoing Service.

Oh im sorry, forgive me for being rude. I didn't mean to ramble on to a different subject in someone elses thread. I talk more than I should im afraid :oops:

Matthew

Matthew,
Thank you for the encouraging words on my second attempt at Kevin! Please don't apologize for sharing your same experiences with working and finishing projects. I think Steven was making a helpful suggestion in that your comments are very valid to many of us and would make a good thread on it's own. Starting a new one, as Steven suggested makes it easier for members to find, enabling them to participate in the conversation. If your remarks stayed here in my critique, few would see it.

Again, I appreciate your input and hope for more in ensuing drawing I will be putting up for critique (see Brandon ...)