Remarks from the "peanut gallery"
 

As a self propelled student and artist I dove in with both feet running. I looked at artists here on the site and picked one to follow (Chris Saper). I bought her book and started mixing paint and cads were on the palette. I learned very quickly that a little cad goes a long way! I love the vibrancy of Chris's work and never expected that I would create something like her quality of work. But I had fun!

I also tried limited palettes and now Marvin's palette. Which is best? None of them! It's like comparing apples to oranges and discussing the merits of each seems a waste of time to me and a good way to create dissent and hard feelings.

Marvin, your work is subtle, polished, sophisticated and a true pleasure to look at. There is nothing to critque here.

Tim, yours is on a totally different plane. It has a otherwordly quality that knocks your socks off.

Marvin, if Tim's work is from Mars, yours is from Venus. Why can't we appreciate the work based on individuality instead of this palette is better for students to learn from, or earth tones are the proper choice for skin as opposed to the uncontrollable cads.

As a student I have enjoyed every pigment I own and will fight for my right to keep them all!

One more thought, pulling Bougereau into this comparison is like adding chocolate to the whole mix. Chocolate will always come out on top in my book, it's the talent, not the palette.

Jean

John I just want to clarify that the Reilly palette is Cadmium based. His palette is arranged in three rows, one for neutrals, one based on Cadmium Orange and one based on Cadmium Red. I took Reilly's value based arrangement and substituted his cadmiums for my earth tones. His palette is capable of far greater chromatic intensities than I feel are necessary to paint flesh while mine covers a wider range of hues.

Many artists prior to Reilly used a set up which featured color strings arranged by value. DaVinci and Bouguereau are but two.

Well said, Jean. I just finished (unfortunately), having to rebuild my main computer system due to Windows corruption and a crash. Thank goodness I lost no data. But, in the process of deciding the best approach to handling my situation, there were many different opinions, all convinced they were utterly right. My head was in a spin. But, in the end, I took all the information I had collected and made my choice - the choice that felt best to me. Just like each individual artist will make their choices as to their methods in the end.

In art, seems to me that it's the end-product that the consumer cares about. Does the art touch them, does it make them want to buy it? I doubt that they care much about cads or not. Bottom line is, there are different methods and each artist adopts the method they feel right about or comfortable with. There are no absolutes and no amount of Marvin or Tim trying to convince the other will ever change the other's views.

Thank you Tim and Marvin for giving our members a chance to learn about different methods. You're both right - for yourself and for those that love your art. So, please, each present your methods as you like - there's something here for all to learn - but, perhaps each of you should start a thread on your own method and the other keep out of that thread.

Jean, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate your kind words regarding my work. I'm glad you enjoy it. Tim obviously feels there is something to critique so I'm giving him the opportunity.

I have shared my thoughts regarding my palette on various threads. To me the discovery of an earth tone based palette was a real revelation. It took my work to another level. When I shared it with my students it had a similar effect on their works as well. I continue to espouse this to both my NY students as well as to my workshop participants. The response has been nothing short of spectacular, as many have attested to here on this forum.

Although my palette is based on the most traditional of color choices people seem to be threatened by anything which deviates from the norm. Newer and up to date are not necessarily better. Even with all of the technology available today no one has been able to match the tone of a Stradivarius violin.

Using my palette people find it is much easier to control the nuances of the human complexion and the outcome is more life like. Since the vast majority of people teaching today recommend cadmiums for flesh I felt that sharing my experience would offer those who seem to struggle with color another option. A number of non students here have tried my colors and the results, as reported by them, were noteworthy.

I believe that for anyone who has the intention of painting life like skin and wants to learn it and minimize the struggle my palette is superior. I don't think all things are equal. Some things are flat out more effective and efficient. True talent does always win out. The point is to get to where the talent can flourish in the least amount of time with the least amount of struggle. The palette sets the stage for the talent.

I'm glad you enjoy Tim's work. Tim is the one who initiated this. He wants to debate the issue so I'm accommodating him because I'm very interested to see what his point is. Tim is also the one who dragged Bouguereau into this. Why anyone would want to be compared to Bouguereau is beyond me as well. I hope that Tim can clarify that as well.

Marvin,
I would like to thank you for all your enthusiasm and willingness to share your hard earned knowledge with us students.
I realize that I have not yet payed my tribute to this wonderful painting, though I have often meant to. I keep coming back to it for studying.

Often when I look at a painting that impresses me I find it hard to analyze the technique. It seems that something undefinable makes a unity to the painting, that can not be torn apart as color, value or drawing.
This is on of these paintings and that is why I keep coming back time after time to enjoy it.

When Tim sees this I want to point out that it is not a demonstration against his points of view. I find his way of painting very inspiring as well. I just realized that I had not commented this painting before.

Allan

Hi all,

Marvin,
Lovely palette! Do you premix, then tube your colors for future use or do you mix fresh with each session?

Just curious as I was wondering how tubing maintains the freshness of the paint.

geri

Thanks Marvin for clearing up my reference to Reilly's pallette. I was taught by Jay O'Meilia who was instructed at the Reilly institute at the NY Artists League (I probably have mislabled them too from a poor memory for those details).

My beginning pallette was in value tones and included cads, red light and yellow. We broke each color down three levels, darkest on top. The colors were laid out by value as well starting at the left with white, then cad. yellow, yellow ochre, cad red light, cerulean blue, cobalt blue, burnt sienna, alizarin crimson and finally black (which we were taught to treat sparingly).

Having learned to create flesh tones with cads and then learning your pallette, Marvin, I feel qualified enough to speak of the merits of Marvin's pallette. I am much happier without the cads in my flesh and am still learning the dpths of this pallette.

Each teacher has their own philosophy and each student must judge everything they learn, try what they dare and learn where ever they can.

I am looking forward to Tims participation when he gets back from Raleigh as he is very talented and equally passionate on this subject.

Again, thank you Marvin and I will be more careful in the future when referencing your pallette.

I predict this will go to ground quicker than an egg from a short bird.

Cynthia, I think the direct comparison is a good thing. Tim and I both have our own way of approaching both painting and teaching. I think it will be enlightening for people to see the differences.

Alan, thanks for the compliment.

Gerri, when I first developed the palette I would mix it fresh every day. Eventually I tubed my paints to save time. Mixing the palette up is a great way to become sensitive to seeing value changes. In addition once the values are mixed out the actual painting time becomes much faster since the correct value has already been achieved. Only hue and chroma need to be arrived at. If there are no air pockets in the tube it should last indefinitely.

Thanks John. You are a great example of what I'm saying here.

Mike, thanks for your insight.

A Hot Yoga class will do wonders for clearing out toxins, and balancing the ego. I highly recommend them. ;)