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Old 12-17-2001, 08:34 AM   #1
Abdi R Malik Abdi R Malik is offline
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Van Dyck Brown




Admistrator's Note: This is part of a post that is in another topic, but was moved here since it was getting into another subject.
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Karin,

I found Van Dyck Brown pigment which is darker than famous burnt umber. Have you tried lately? Is it worth for underpaint?

Regards,
Abdi
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Old 12-17-2001, 11:55 AM   #2
Karin Wells Karin Wells is offline
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VanDyck brown is a different color than burnt umber. In an underpainting I use raw umber, white and sometimes I'll add yellow ochre. There are many mixtures that can be used for underpainting and I don't see any reason why you cannot use VanDyck brown.
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Old 12-17-2001, 02:00 PM   #3
Abdi R Malik Abdi R Malik is offline
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My burnt umber is running out and I have been stick with it for 6 years.

Unfortunately, W&N artist 37ml burnt umber was out of stock at store in city. The salesman offered me a 37ml Van Dyke brown which is darker but I haven't tried it on canvas.

Burnt umber is my only earth color included on my palette.

Thanks,
Abdi
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Old 12-17-2001, 02:48 PM   #4
David Dowbyhuz David Dowbyhuz is offline
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I've recently stepped away from Van Dyke brown, in favor of Gamblin's oddly named "asphaltum". It has warmth and depth, without the "dirty" overtones of burnt umber. Thanks to Bill Whitaker for the tip.

(Every time I think of "Van Dyke brown" I'm reminded with a smile of the first time I heard of the color. I was young, and got a great hoot out of watching Bill Alexander's Joy of Painting. He was laugh-out-loud fun, and he loved to "fire in" his "Van Dy-y-k-k-e br-r-own".)
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Old 12-17-2001, 04:00 PM   #5
Abdi R Malik Abdi R Malik is offline
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I heard that too but none of brands which provide asphaltum on their list are exist here.

W&N is a favorite in my country. I'am not sure whether W&N produces it.

By referring the name does it tend to very dark brown bluish?

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Old 12-17-2001, 04:06 PM   #6
David Dowbyhuz David Dowbyhuz is offline
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I'm pretty sure "asphaltum" is a Gamblin creation.

It is composed of bone black & mars red, so there are no blue tones whatever.
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Old 03-23-2002, 11:38 PM   #7
Joseph Brzycki Joseph Brzycki is offline
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Slippage

Van dyke Brown is known for slidding down the canvas over time. In other words, it doesn't stick. I suggest sticking with raw umber, my favorite.
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Old 03-26-2002, 09:21 AM   #8
Juan Martinez Juan Martinez is offline
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Abdi,

Before using the Van Dyck brown, check the pigments listed on the side of the tube. If it is true Van Dyck brown (Pigment listed as NBr 8), don't use it. It is known to be very weak and fleeting. Not every tube of van Dyck brown is made of this pigment, though. Most manufacturers mix some pigments to get the "look" of the v.D. brown using carbon or lamp black (PBk 7 or PBk 6) and some combination of Burnt Umber/Sienna (PBr 7). Also, some manufacturers' vD brown contains yellow ochre. The bottom line is, if the pigment list on the tube indicates it has NBr 8 in it; don't use it.

Asphaltum is another of those pigments, like van Dyck brown, that quickly went out of use when its negative qualities were discovered by the late 19th century, and better pigments were substituted for it. Gamblin has recreated the "look" of asphaltum, but with permanent, reliable pigments. You can make your own Asphaltum or vanDyck Brown with black, burnt umber/sienna, and yellow ochre or cad yellow medium (very little of the latter or it becomes too greenish). For the blacks in these mixtures, I would recommend using only lamp or carbon as they are the best and most thorough driers. However, the very addition of the umber aids in the drying process.

Hope this helps.

Juan
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Old 03-31-2002, 07:20 AM   #9
Sandy Barnes Sandy Barnes is offline
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Juan, You said
Quote:
Most manufacturers mix some pigments to get the "look" of the v.D. brown using carbon or lamp black (PBk 7 or PBk 6) and some combination of Burnt Umber/Sienna (PBr 7)."
I have a 200ml tube of WN Van Dyke Brown (a flea market find) It is PBr 7. Will it "slide" over time or can i use it?
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Old 04-01-2002, 10:27 AM   #10
Juan Martinez Juan Martinez is offline
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Dear Sandy;

If PBr 7 (natural iron oxide) is the only pigment in there, it should be just fine. That is the same pigment used for the natural umbers (when manganese is present) and of the siennas (when there is no manganese). The calcined version (calcinating is the process of cooking the pigment to oxidize it) the pigment is used for the Burnt colours, and the un-calcined are the Raw. In all events, these are considered very stable. Heck, it's just dirt, and dirt lasts a very long time. On occasion, I hear claims that the umbers "slip", as you say, or are somehow fleeting, but I don't know where those sentiments stem from. Any literature on the iron oxides, either natural (umbers & siennas) or synthetic (Mars colours) is pretty firm in stating that they are solid, lightfast, and permanent.

The downsides to umber pigments are that they can promote the "sinking-in" effect on colours mixed with them and they can be weak tinters, especially raw umber. It is this weak pigmenting strength that probably leads to the mistaken conclusion that they are transient. By contrast, the Mars colours seem to generally be strong tinters. They do not contain manganese, so they dry more slowly, too.

Anyway, the bottom line is that your tube of vanDyck Brown should not present any problem if all it contains is PBr 7. It was a good buy, although it is probably falsely named.

All the best.

Juan
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